DC is full of sh*t..No love for that guy and organization..sorry.

[TMKIWI]

Nice comments miedos.
Things in the States seem be moving slower then elsewhere.
NZ,Aussie,Brittan & Europe have made strides to bring back the 2 Stroke.
With cost being the main factor.
The new GP125 class is great and will only become bigger soon. Hopefully we will be back to 3 classes soon.
Next years junior worlds will be 2 stroke only as well.
The tide is changing and am sure the manufactors are watching closely.
The main stumbling block that I see is that the States is the largest market for bikes.
Just because NZ & Aussie have changed the rules, it wont make a damn difference to what the Manufactors do.
I hope i'm wrong but i don't see alot changing until things change in the states.
As a few of you know you can still buy new RM's & KX's in other parts of the world because the volume is small and people still want them.
As an aside. The National 85cc class was changed this year to 85cc only. NO 150F's.
They decided to run a 150F class by itself. Obviously to please Honda.
The grids were full of 85's.
The 150 class had 4 entrants.
I dont think Honda will be bringing in many CRF150R's this year.
The reason for the change ? COST. A new 150 $9k. A new 85 $6k.

I do like the idea of 150/300.
There are currantly 4 Euro manufactors that produce 300's.
It would not be hard for them to put out a MX version.TM & KTM actually do.
 

[opfermanmotors]

"he's two seconds faster.  Got to tell you that's not even racing"

Of course not, the object of racing is to ride the slowest machine possible. 

"Got to ride what the OEMs are making" ....  aka "you guys should just STFU and buy whatever Honda's selling and pay them whatever they want for it.  Its a lot of fun to pay 3000 to rebuild a top end than 100 bucks."

[meger z]

OK so he,s saying that they have to do what the big 4 say !OK so there is no need to call us conspiracy nuts ?.There it is in black and white.

[miedosoracing]

A 250 2 stroke wouldn't even have qualified in the 250F class this past weekend.

46 111 Michael Sleeter KTM 250 SXF 2:21.094 0.000 - 2:21.094 - 2:27.164


250 Motocross
SES #5 SES #6
ROCKSTAR ENERGY HANGTOWN CLASSIC
1 377 Christophe Pourcel Kawasaki KX 250F 2:12.352 0.000 2:13.720 - 2:12.352 - - -
2 20 Broc Tickle Yamaha YZ 250F 2:12.452 0.000 2:12.452 - 2:15.921 - - -
3 38 Trey Canard Honda CRF250R 2:14.209 0.000 2:14.209 - 2:15.117 - - -
4 49 William Hahn Honda CRF250R 2:14.243 0.000 2:14.243 - 2:15.802 - - -
5 12 Jake Weimer Kawasaki KX 250F 2:14.281 0.000 2:14.281 - 2:16.568 - - -
6 577 Martin Davalos Yamaha YZ250F 2:14.315 0.000 2:14.315 - 2:18.046 - - -
7 17 Justin Barcia Honda CRF250R 2:14.837 0.000 2:15.066 - 2:14.837 - - -
8 243 Eli Tomac Honda CRF250R 2:14.851 0.000 2:14.851 - 2:15.062 - - -
9 19 Tommy Searle KTM 250 SXF 2:14.910 0.000 2:15.981 - 2:14.910 - - -
10 28 Tyla Rattray Kawasaki KX 250F 2:15.333 0.000 2:15.456 - 2:15.333 - - -
11 21 Blake Wharton Honda CRF250R 2:15.362 0.000 2:15.362 - 2:16.510 - - -
12 108 Dean Wilson Kawsaki KX250F 2:15.566 0.000 2:15.566 - 2:16.570 - - -
13 31 Matthew Lemoine Suzuki RMZ250 2:15.609 0.000 2:15.609 - 2:17.168 - - -
14 341 Nico Izzi Yamaha YZ250F 2:15.612 0.000 2:15.612 - 2:15.910 - - -
15 200 Cole Seely Honda CRF250R 2:15.676 0.000 2:15.676 - 2:15.948 - - -
16 585 Travis Baker Yamaha YZ 250F 2:16.141 0.000 2:16.141 - 2:16.690 - - -
17 592 Jake Canada Kawasaki KX 250F 2:16.480 0.000 - 2:21.256 - 2:16.480 - -
18 66 Blake Baggett Suzuki RM Z250 2:16.561 0.000 2:16.561 - 2:17.110 - - -
19 36 Darryn Durham Honda CRF250R 2:16.815 0.000 2:34.460 - 2:16.815 - - -
20 48 Max Anstie Yamaha YZ250F 2:17.020 0.000 2:17.020 - 2:17.547 - - -
21 61 Vince Friese Yamaha YZ250F 2:17.120 0.000 2:17.120 - 2:17.335 - - -
22 116 Ryan Morais Suzuki RMZ250 2:17.134 0.000 2:17.134 - 2:21.880 - - -
23 175 Phillip Nicoletti KTM 250 SXF 2:17.384 0.000 2:17.384 - 2:18.778 - - -
24 859 Matiss Karro Suzuki RMZ250 2:17.930 0.000 - 2:18.897 - 2:17.930 - -
25 613 James DeCotis Honda CRF250R 2:18.125 0.000 2:18.125 - 2:18.723 - - -
26 87 Les Smith Honda CRF250R 2:18.406 0.000 2:18.652 - 2:18.406 - - -
27 102 Christopher Gosselaar Honda CRF250R 2:18.502 0.000 2:19.261 - 2:18.502 - - -
28 63 Sean Borkenhagen KTM 250SXF 2:18.620 0.000 2:18.620 - 2:19.837 - - -
29 373 Drew Gosselaar Honda CRF250R 2:18.740 0.000 - 2:18.740 - 2:21.037 - -
30 99 Topher Ingalls Yamaha YZ 250F 2:19.016 0.000 2:19.016 - 2:22.115 - - -
31 185 Killy Rusk KTM 250 SX-F 2:19.290 0.000 - 2:20.082 - 2:19.290 - -
32 452 Colton Haaker Yamaha YZ250F 2:19.767 0.000 - 2:21.415 - 2:19.767 - -
33 92 Michael Willard Honda CRF250R 2:19.929 0.000 2:19.929 - 2:21.417 - - -
34 214 Eric Nye KTM 250 SX-F 2:20.100 0.000 - 2:20.447 - 2:20.100 - -
35 354 Christopher Johnson Suzuki RM Z250 2:20.332 0.000 - 2:20.332 - 2:21.746 - -
36 211 Tevin Tapia KTM 250 SXF 2:20.431 0.000 2:20.431 - 2:20.982 - - -
37 370 Drew Yenerich Yamaha YZ 250F 2:20.697 0.000 2:21.198 - 2:20.697 - - -
38 85 Scott Champion Kawasaki KX 250F 2:20.839 0.000 2:20.839 - 2:22.940 - - -
39 126 Hunter Hewitt Suzuki RM Z250 2:20.931 0.000 2:20.931 - 2:21.606 - - -
40 976 Josh Greco Suzuki RMZ250 2:21.075 0.000 - 2:21.491 - 2:21.075

[JohnN]

Hmmmmm.....

Now I don't know how Sleeter would have done had he raced a 450 or a 350, but it's kind of interesting that his lap times were so slow...

According to the powers that be, the 250 two-stroke is too fast to compete with the 250F's and yet this one couldn't even qualify at a time similar to mid-pack 250F racers?

Does anyone know if Sleeter had some problems? Injuries?

Otherwise it could have been something to garner some additional attention for KTM...

How did the "factory KTM racer for the day" do? Did he qualify? If so, how did he do?

The podium speech from Mike Alessi was like a KTM commercial.... maybe there's more than meets the eye?

Oh no.... got to head down to the lead lined bunker... I hear black helicopters!!!   

[Huffieva]

I think everyone should listen to what he said... I interpret that to mean the even with all the millions of dollars in research and development that the four strokes are still unable to compete with what amounts to basically ten year old technology of the two strokes... With that being said he basically goes on to state that they want to race what the manufactures produce, which is a bit of a contradiction considering KTM and Yamaha do in fact produce current model two strokes and import them into the US  all Husqvarna needs is a close ratio transmission in the WR's they already import, that makes three, Maico makes four, TM makes five, Gas Gas has the ability to make it six, if Suzuki would import the 2T's they sell elsewhere that makes seven... If Honda (and I use Honda as an example because of their attitude) doesn't like the idea of old technology lapping there new technology the only need to do one thing... Build a bike that is capable of competing... A perfect example of this would be the KTM 350 that won moto 2 at Hangtown... Look we all know that technology can take us to the moon and back, but is all that really necessary, especially when Honda knows in their hearts that their current lineup can't compete with something produced by themselves ten years ago?
2 Stroke = Simplicity = Affordability = More Racers = More Bike Sales = Everyone Happy in the long run...

[miedosoracing]

Not sure yet of his finish. But in qualifying, here it is.

31 732 Tye Hames KTM 450SXF 2:17.550 0.000 - 2:17.550 - 2:20.332 -

[2smoker]

I hope the AMA just die like their road series.. I am not interested in of be part of an organization with no integrity and honesty. This past week-end just confirmed that D.C. was a joke with Sleeter laptimes. They invested so much time and money in the new era of 4 junk that the oem won't go back.. It is just a big nightmare.... I dont care about his position.. We want real answers.. DC is just like a politician, a damn puppet. At least Mcgrath told the truth even if the guy still has a job with Honda..the bigger 4 junk pusher out there.! How do you want the OEM to manufacture the 2 stroke again if you don't change the rules ? A compelling competitive series lol We did the testing? We have the data? Anything legit to back up your claims? So us the riders ..we are just dumb sheep? Sorry guys.. I am just fed up with this organization and their leaders. I don't care about the 350s which is the bigger cheater bike out there...but it is ok! they stink just like everything 4 junk.

[SwapperMX]

I hope the AMA just die like their road series.. I am not interested in of be part of an organization with no integrity and honesty. This past week-end just confirmed that D.C. was a joke with Sleeter laptimes. They invested so much time and money in the new era of 4 junk that the oem won't go back.. It is just a big nightmare.... I dont care about his position.. We want real answers.. DC is just like a politician, a damn puppet. At least Mcgrath told the truth even if the guy still has a job with Honda..the bigger 4 junk pusher out there.! How do you want the OEM to manufacture the 2 stroke again if you don't change the rules ? A compelling competitive series lol We did the testing? We have the data? Anything legit to back up your claims? So us the riders ..we are just dumb sheep? Sorry guys.. I am just fed up with this organization and their leaders. I don't care about the 350s which is the bigger cheater bike out there...but it is ok! they stink just like everything 4 junk.

Very passionate - I LIKE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bearorso]

I just posted the link for that video in the motocross and SX forum in KTM talk - a bit of a hotbed of 2t vs 4t confrontation. I'm surprised it was missed so far. The  blokes who so back 4ts just avoid the issue constantly - that of equivalency, and quite often shoot themselves in the foot with their own posts. By the same token , I don't have much time for some of the foolish approaches by some 2t proponents. I daresay putting it up there will result in the usual idiocy by a few regular posters there.   

Equivalency is the issue.

Meido = Rupert?

I have to say , I don't agree with you in just going for 144 / 300. No concessions should be made in terms of equivalency.
Anything other than capacity equivalency is a farce, and a blot on our sport.

 4ts have a hell of a lot more to come - Jan Witteveen (sp) discussed as much in his monthly column in MX Digital quite often, and Moto GP, F1, Superbikes and just plain road legal 4ts show how much more is to come. So any less than equivalency not help 2ts and just ensure the current status quo remains. The irony is, that 4ts (sub and 250cc) will become more and more hyper in their power delivery - as it always has been and I think it always will be, a naturally aspirated 4t makes power by going further and further up the rev scale, sacrificing low and mid. The open (not an entirely accurate naming , I know) class should return to that - the ability for any manufacturer to try a capacity that they think will do the job, be it 2t or 4t - pretty much anything over 300cc can produce more outright power than can be used by the majority of riders on the dirt.

I ride 2ts by preference by the way, I'm not an excuse maker for 4ts.

[miedosoracing]

Rupert and I are I believe friends. He knows me and we speak/write. There are quite a few people I know on the inside, but no one will admit it. LOL But what some people agree, I agree as well, that cc for cc is fair.  I go the direction I do, because of intelligent planning. This is a true story.  My wife and I get out of our car.  This guy walks by and is totally watching my wife.  He walks right into the wall. I'm laughing by this time, and he turns and kinda giggles.  He keeps watching my wife and ran right back into the freakin wall.  If you run into a wall, don't keep running into the same wall. Take side steps and go around said wall.  I know for a FACT directly from the source, that 250cc vs 250cc is never gonna happen.  So why do one's who want to see 2 strokes out on the track, keep shooting themselves in the foot? Something you guys might want to think about.  I have DC's email and cell phone number on my phone. At this point I'm sure he thinks it was his worst mistake in his life to give it too me.  But fact is, I don't just pull things out of the sky.  I know things that would make you guys understand where I come from more. But I can't talk about them. I still respect and consider DC a friend. Most likely not mutual though> 

[Coop]

I don't know, for some when DC says he is a fan of two strokes I believe him. I have read more than once in past issues of RX where DC has written that 4 strokes are getting too fast and that the noise of modern 4 strokes is one reason many small local tracks are getting shut down. I really cannot blame him for supporting the factories with the 4 stroke agenda now however. If he didn't, he wouldn't have much of a future. It's easy for those of us not making our living running a magazine and race series to say the things we do. Once you get into his position things change. That doesn't make it right or that I agree with him of course.

I am not on the inside at all, but I have a lot of free time (off all summer) and I am passionate about two strokes , so I am happy to help anyway I can.  I doubt we will ever see a 250vs250 series because the factories have invested way too much money into the 4 strokes to go back, but I would love to be wrong here.

[2smoker]

See it doesn't really matters what DC likes or says.. Because it is not a difference maker.. What about real data with legit surveys..testing to back up his claims??? It is all words nothing really get done. Nothing justified the 4 stroke era at all.. Nothing not even the emission rules because we all know that it can be done. This is getting so stupid. We are just spectators waiting for something to happens. It is all lies and manipulation, stipulations.. We have been talking about a change for the last decade..Anything relevant happened yet? The sport @ professional level is so dead. CCs for CCs or nothing.. Do you really think that a 125cc 2 stroke can keep up with a 250cc 4 stroke? Seriously...DC won't do anything.. He owned the medias.. Racerxill..selling 4 strokes crap.. MXA are trying their best but still need contracts from the OEM.. I am big time fed up with the sheep attitude of everyone in the industry..WOW! I have no problems making fun of the higher ups because they do the same. This is frustrating and ridiculous.

[2smoker]

oh yeah I forgot this : http://newproductlaunch.kawasaki.com/Products/Photos.aspx?productid=447&featured
Here come the new  2011 cows from Kawi for you lol! hahahaha

[opfermanmotors]

AMA rules do affect Manufacturers, why else are they producing 450cc engines, such an odd displacement.  I always hated odd displacement bikes because they usually suck, if they're not in the normal 125 -> 250 -> 500 numbers bikes were usually terrible.  I know not all bikes are like that, but seemed to be the rule of thumb.  A 100 cc engine? crap compared to a 125 or 80.  A 175?  a dog compared to a 125 or 250.  I don't know, always feel dirty when i see odd displacement engines like they are just going to suck.

Anyhow, don't manufacturers make these strange 450 displacements instead of 500 because of AMA rules?  Or did they all just get together and decide to make a displacement that was only known to be a disaster in the past (i.e. Honda CR450).