2 strokes approved for the 13' supercross series

[twosmoke595]

http://www.amasupercross.com/rules/pdf/2013/bulletins/amaracing_bulletin%20sx%202013.02%20approved%20equip%20list.pdf

250 class:
Yamaha 2008-2010 YZ 125

450 class:
KTM 2013 250 SX
Yamaha 2008-2010 YZ 250

pretty pitiful. BUT it was even worse, because last year the newest ktm 250sx wasn't even on there, it was 2008-2011
SO this is good news...or should i say better news than there was

now all we need to do is either get the cc's upped to 144/300 or have them straight up cc for cc racing  (i'm still allowed to dream right?)

[factoryX]

Would love to see someone pick up the mighty 250sx. No 125sx though? Really? Husky would also jump on the band wagon if they could, as well as TM...

[mxracer239]

So why just the few 2stroke bikes approved to race?

[Stusmoke]

Because honda, suzuki, yamaha and kawasaki don't want a brand new, up to date 125sx underneath Ken rozcen for pro supercross. That would most likely spell certain death for their 250F programs. Atleast where applicable

[evo550]

So why just the few 2stroke bikes approved to race?

Because the manufacturers have to pay big $$ to have their bike homoglated ( I think thats how it's spelt) with the AMA.
There is no use throwing money away on registering a bike that would never see the light of day in a Supercross.

[Jeram]

Homologated

Just another excuse for red tape to stop 'minority' teams from kicking arse on their own bikes and to give monopoly to the fctories

[mxracer239]

so if u showed up on a older rm or kx 250 2 smoke u cldnt race?

[twosmoke595]

so if u showed up on a older rm or kx 250 2 smoke u cldnt race?

nope

i think with the older bikes its more of a safety issue than just not wanting them in there, which i completely understand. the stress that bikes endure at a pro level is astronomical

[mendoteach]

I want to see an old school supercross lay out, and then see what the YZ or SX can do. Modern supercross tracks cater to four-strokes. Period. When the tide of the big four came in, the tracks were different. In a two year span they changed. Distances to jump faces were further, berms were built differently etc. The place where a four stroke has its greatest advantage is in the whoops (they changed too?more gnarly). The bike's greater angular inertia and better traction make for a bike that is much more stable through the whoops. Perfect, design a track around a type of bike that already cheats and you are guaranteed a phase-out. In my opinion, the AMA is the most worthless unsupportive member organization/lobbying group ever. And they've only gotten worse over the years. Douche bags the lot.

[kim wedding]

2-stroke's were cheated off the track's by the ama and their still doing it. The same time the ama had their RIGHT'S, RIDING AND RACING campaign was the same time they cheated 2s. I don't care if the ama ever changes.  We the rider's and 2s supporter's need to step up and not support the ama. Don't watch the ama race's.

All the changes to the track's have been to make 4$ racing better but we 2s rider's know how to fit track's for a 2s advantage and 2s do it with more style.  I personally prefer mx to sx.  I love sx jump's and have wonder'ed why their's not more sx jump's on certain track's but i would rather ride on or spectate on a outdoor track. 

I think 2s people should concentrate on a 2s mx series. Right now i'm thinking a 30 to 40 east coast,west coast round series with 40 minute moto's 125 250 500 men's classes and women's class too. Not sure if it should be 1 moto or 2?

The track's should show case the different terrain's and soil's that 2s can race on from blue grove hard pack carlbad type track's to super tight sand track's with ton's of turn's,whoop's and no jump's and everything in between. Would love to see some track's of varing lenght's longer, shorter even tighter as long as it's safe. Maybe even some track's with 40 rider gate's as well as smaller track's with less riders on the gate.Anything to promote the greatest motorized sport in the world.  Today is 1/1/13 middle of winter how much do you think could be accomplished by spring?  I'm a opptimist i think it's all possible with the right people. If you love this sport and can do something. Step up and do it cuz one thing's for sure the ama won't and the rest of us are burning daylight.        So here's to a ama free 2s series in 13   KIM

[dsrtrider48]

look at lap times this season for top riders in 250 4t and 450 4t classes.  they are virtually the same.  really doesn't matter bike size anymore...you can only go so fast around these technical tracks.  to fast you overjump or blow thru corners.     if a 250 2t is between a 250 4t and 450 4t they would get same lap times also.   just put a good rider on anything and they will still come up on top.   I like the idea of an entry level class (125 2t) and an open class (run what you brung).

[Stusmoke]

look at lap times this season for top riders in 250 4t and 450 4t classes.  they are virtually the same.  really doesn't matter bike size anymore...you can only go so fast around these technical tracks.  to fast you overjump or blow thru corners.     if a 250 2t is between a 250 4t and 450 4t they would get same lap times also.   just put a good rider on anything and they will still come up on top.   I like the idea of an entry level class (125 2t) and an open class (run what you brung).

To a certain extent thats true, but just remember that lighter bikes do everything better. Including stopping and turning. Sure the extra power would be utterly useless in the rhythm sections, but hte two strokes could under brake and out corner the four jokes. THAT is where they would win and thats all it takes to give the foopers a black eye.

[motoxr377]

While I am not a member, let' s keep in mind that the AMA is different from AMA Pro Racing, which is controlled by MXSports and Feld.

The AMA has no hand in pro racing.  AMA Pro Racing, a completely different organization, does.  The AMA controls amateur racing, which has displacement parity.

Although we all know AMA and AMA Pro Racing used to be one in the same, they aren't now.  Although the AMA is still defective (Knobby Clark incident), MXSports and Feld Entertainment are the larger culprits in our stance against a 4T controlled universe.

[bearorso]

While I am not a member, let' s keep in mind that the AMA is different from AMA Pro Racing, which is controlled by MX Sports and Feld.

The AMA has no hand in pro racing.  AMA Pro Racing, a completely different organization, does.  The AMA controls amateur racing, which has displacement parity.

Although we all know AMA and AMA Pro Racing used to be one in the same, they aren't now.  Although the AMA is still defective (Knobby Clark incident), MX Sports and Feld Entertainment are the larger culprits in our stance against a 4T controlled universe.

Yes, if Feld just decided to allow parity, it would be so, in SX. Feld Own SX. The AMA would rubber stamp pretty much anything they decided to do.

MX Sports, the same for Outdoors - though, DMG / The France family business, own the Outdoors, Road Racing, etc, etc. The 'Rubber Stamping' would be guaranteed, as well.

Tracks made for 4 Strokes? BS. Made for the bigger bikes - 250fs, are Not 125s.  Tracks, are purely Made for 'The Spectacle' required. That we have 450s - modern versions of 'open classers'- in SX, is a bit strange, to an old bloke like me. I remember the early years of SX, that had a 500 class. I think Steve Stackable was the last 500 SX Champion?

That I constantly hear even the 450s hit their rev limiters, ups my respect for the riders. Most 450s rev limiters hit in at 10k or higher. Mad Bastards, are the 450 riders!

Nothing but Equivalency should be the standard. It just takes a bit of Balls from DC and Co, and Feld.  And the FIM / Luongo. 250 2ts were Put Into The Rules, in MX2, for 2010, by the FIM. But, that rule, was 'Disappeared' - by Luongo / Honda, one would assume. It, Equivalency,  won't change much, initially. And, the factories would be shooting themselves in both feet, and their Brain Pans, if they went off in a Huff. SX is a Massive Marketing vehicle for them. Not just for their Dirt Bikes - but Mainly, Hugely, for the companies NAME - and thence, All their products.

PS:

As to the 'homologation' of models - it's only a few thousand dollars - something like 2 or 3, I think. It's just a measure of a companies interest / commitment. Though, I'm sure a 2010 YZ could turn up on the line, with parts, like the frame and cases, made in the Very latest batch produced - whenever that has been. Not hard to do, if you wanted to campaign a 2t Yamaha. 2010 documented bike, with brand new frame and cases. I'd be very surprised if the part numbers are different to the 2013s.............

[VintageBlueSmoke]

I am not supporting the AMA/Feld et al but here are some parting shots at some of your comments

Tracks: Yes they were changed - to support better (4$) racing, but also for television - which I believe has as much to do with the 4$ conspiracy as anything.  Berms were lowered so they wouldn't block camera angles. Riders no longer disappear under the woops and rarely behind a jump. In-door racing is what MOST supercross is these days yet these FOOTBALL stadiums can't vent the 2T smoke fast enough causing our beloved 2T haze. Even the roofless stadiums build up a layer that doesn't escape quickly. Unfortunately, TV cameras see that haze as a negative thing. And tracks WERE changed. Jump placements, face angles, the afore mentioned berms and woops...all were done, not to give 4$ an advantage but to make better racing in an all 4$ field.

Lap Times: Something to point out is that until this year, motos were held 250, 450, 250, 450, etc. That mean't that the 250's always had a track in slighly better condition. That may not be an issue on some tracks but on others, it was worth a couple of seconds between motos, particularly wet or sandy/rutted tracks - especially wet, sandy, rutted  tracks (Daytona, I'm looking at you!). This year, things were supposed to different. I didn't notice in the SX, but in MX they rotated and lap times spread out. Even considering the super competitive 250F class of 2012 compared to the Dungy Victory Laps.

Rule Equivelencys: We all like to think that a 250T will run off in a 250F class and it might with the right conditions but it is just wrong to think that way. However, rarely does it happen when they are allowed. Say the World Vet Championship? Now this year it WAS won by a guy on a YZ 250 (New Zealander I believe) but the rest of the 250T's were in the back of the pack. This was a cas of a significantly better prepared rider. Not a better bike. Even though in European MX, were the 250T has to race in the 450F class, why are there no privateers? Because even in an open rule class (Europe still can have "Works" bikes), you can't make a 250T reliably faster than a works 450F.

I hope I have not blastphemied in the above. Just trying to adjust the picture and tune out the rhetoric.