Author Topic: 2014 Maico's  (Read 14725 times)

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Offline bearorso

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Re: 2014 Maico's
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2013, 08:41:27 PM »
I can assure they are not going to be $16k... And nobody has seen the new models, so how and why judge?
If you don't like them when they are released, you don't have to buy one.
We should be happy there is another 2T option coming back around.

Agreed,but the skepticism is understandable.

We are in a 'pro' 2 stroke Forum.

With, I'd say, quite a few older  blokes that have either owned Maicos, or competed against them. I, and I'm sure a few others here, can tick both boxes.

 It would be interesting to see the demographics of this site, by the way.

We 'pro' 2 stroke riders / owners / enthusiasts, have been served up a serious amount of 'stories', if not to say BS, with regards to Maico International, and their 'coming bikes', over the last few years. A large amount of 'goodwill' has been used up.

Many of us have seen that it's been held up by legal matters - but with so much I've read, they were legal matters that could have been avoided. By doing things right, and 'due diligence' on part of people making claims to ownership. All while making big claims as to 'innovations'.

So, many stand back now, with a heavy load of skepticism, BUT, a hell of a lot of hope.

So, please keep us informed of progress Charles - keeping things to yourself, will do no one any good - agreed to 'embargoes' are perfectly understandable / legitimate things you Have to honour, of course. Make sure you reveal any 'obligations' you may have to Maico International - such as the aforementioned information embargo dates, AND any 'perks' you are given, such as free travel to an event. A good journalist / site owner Should be up front and provide full disclosure of such things, to maintain their credibility. I apologize in advance, if this offends - I'd hope, it comes under the old saw of "teach your Grandma to suck eggs". Which I tend to use on fools, know-alls and BS artists.

As I've written all along - I await Maicos re-emergence, over and above the small 'production' done by others such as Koestler (sp?)

I really hope this is not another disappointment in the making.

I wish Maico International well, and hope that the BS has stopped. Please keep us Accurately Informed, Charles.

There are a fair few wankers who joyously knock OSSA - but, they've got into production, with Entirely New Bikes, in record time - selling their Trials Bikes and the Explorer. The Enduro, is, so far, only a few months behind the initial debut date - down to have been for Feb /March 2013, from the very get go. People seem illiterate, when it comes to the original time frame given. The last I read, limited production is a few months behind.

I see delays in the OSSA Enduro, being more due to OSSA having to concentrate on their Trials and Explorer production - money makers that they need to meet the demand for, and not restrict production of to get the Enduro bikes out. I'd not be surprised to see some further delay to the Enduro bike release - due to production limitations.   But that economic reality, would seem to be something beyond most peoples understanding, too. Blokes like Chilly, thinking they are 'clever' in knocking OSSA, whilst not seeming to see their success in starting back up, and getting modern 2ts made, and Sold. And, they are EFI - something that many, seem to still think "can't ever work" - Absolute F***ing Drongos. It's funny - I don't seem to see Chilly getting stuck into KTM for just sitting on their arses and pumping out basically the same 2 2t engine modules, since around 1997 /98. But, it has to be acknowledged, that KTM Have said All Along, that their 'new 2ts', would not appear before they Have to appear, to meet regulations. I hope, they'll appear a bit earlier than that, due to competition from other new 2ts, that take sales from them

Offline Stusmoke

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Re: 2014 Maico's
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2013, 09:08:18 PM »
I can assure they are not going to be $16k... And nobody has seen the new models, so how and why judge?
If you don't like them when they are released, you don't have to buy one.
We should be happy there is another 2T option coming back around.

Agreed,but the skepticism is understandable.

We are in a 'pro' 2 stroke Forum.

With, I'd say, quite a few older  blokes that have either owned Maicos, or competed against them. I, and I'm sure a few others here, can tick both boxes.

 It would be interesting to see the demographics of this site, by the way.

We 'pro' 2 stroke riders / owners / enthusiasts, have been served up a serious amount of 'stories', if not to say BS, with regards to Maico International, and their 'coming bikes', over the last few years. A large amount of 'goodwill' has been used up.

Many of us have seen that it's been held up by legal matters - but with so much I've read, they were legal matters that could have been avoided. By doing things right, and 'due diligence' on part of people making claims to ownership. All while making big claims as to 'innovations'.

So, many stand back now, with a heavy load of skepticism, BUT, a hell of a lot of hope.

So, please keep us informed of progress Charles - keeping things to yourself, will do no one any good - agreed to 'embargoes' are perfectly understandable / legitimate things you Have to honour, of course. Make sure you reveal any 'obligations' you may have to Maico International - such as the aforementioned information embargo dates, AND any 'perks' you are given, such as free travel to an event. A good journalist / site owner Should be up front and provide full disclosure of such things, to maintain their credibility. I apologize in advance, if this offends - I'd hope, it comes under the old saw of "teach your Grandma to suck eggs". Which I tend to use on fools, know-alls and BS artists.

As I've written all along - I await Maicos re-emergence, over and above the small 'production' done by others such as Koestler (sp?)

I really hope this is not another disappointment in the making.

I wish Maico International well, and hope that the BS has stopped. Please keep us Accurately Informed, Charles.

There are a fair few wankers who joyously knock OSSA - but, they've got into production, with Entirely New Bikes, in record time - selling their Trials Bikes and the Explorer. The Enduro, is, so far, only a few months behind the initial debut date - down to have been for Feb /March 2013, from the very get go. People seem illiterate, when it comes to the original time frame given. The last I read, limited production is a few months behind.

I see delays in the OSSA Enduro, being more due to OSSA having to concentrate on their Trials and Explorer production - money makers that they need to meet the demand for, and not restrict production of to get the Enduro bikes out. I'd not be surprised to see some further delay to the Enduro bike release - due to production limitations.   But that economic reality, would seem to be something beyond most peoples understanding, too. Blokes like Chilly, thinking they are 'clever' in knocking OSSA, whilst not seeming to see their success in starting back up, and getting modern 2ts made, and Sold. And, they are EFI - something that many, seem to still think "can't ever work" - Absolute F***ing Drongos. It's funny - I don't seem to see Chilly getting stuck into KTM for just sitting on their arses and pumping out basically the same 2 2t engine modules, since around 1997 /98. But, it has to be acknowledged, that KTM Have said All Along, that their 'new 2ts', would not appear before they Have to appear, to meet regulations. I hope, they'll appear a bit earlier than that, due to competition from other new 2ts, that take sales from them


Well put. Especially the bit about EFI on two strokes. Only people who say it can't work have absolutely no idea how either four or two stroke engines work. Uniflow did it on an old kwaka big horn and he to the best of my knowledge isn't operating on million dollar budgets :D
See you in Hell or Motocross Des Nations, whichever I get to first.

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2001 Honda CR125

Offline SachsGS

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Re: 2014 Maico's
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2013, 11:08:07 PM »
Hey Evo I hear what you are saying and don't disagree in principal. What is the reality however? Supercross and 4T marketing hype have given us the CR450f (for example), an expensive, ill handling and maintenance intensive motocross machine that I see collecting dust at the local dealership. The marketing geniuses have succeeded in pushing the sport in a direction that is killing it.

Offline racer x

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Re: 2014 Maico's
« Reply #48 on: March 04, 2013, 12:53:03 AM »
ill handling? really?

Offline evo550

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Re: 2014 Maico's
« Reply #49 on: March 04, 2013, 07:13:26 PM »
Hey Evo I hear what you are saying and don't disagree in principal. What is the reality however? Supercross and 4T marketing hype have given us the CR450f (for example), an expensive, ill handling and maintenance intensive motocross machine that I see collecting dust at the local dealership. The marketing geniuses have succeeded in pushing the sport in a direction that is killing it.

Youre dead right, marketing along with high profile race victories sell bikes. Maico has neither of these (at least not in the last 35/40 yrs  :D ) Unfortunately all Japanese companies and KTM do.
Trying to compete head to head with this is almost suicide, unless you have backing of another manufacturer (BMW or the like).
Unfortunately the more times a Maico resurrection flops, the more Maico becomes know as a flop, and less as the bikes that where years ahead of their time, as they should be remembered.

Offline evo550

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Re: 2014 Maico's
« Reply #50 on: March 04, 2013, 07:14:49 PM »
ill handling? really?
That's an old timer speak for "That handling is sick" ;)

Offline racer x

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Re: 2014 Maico's
« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2013, 07:44:24 PM »
oh right, should have known that. thanks evo.

Offline SachsGS

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Re: 2014 Maico's
« Reply #52 on: March 04, 2013, 11:05:04 PM »
Motocross Action has not been "enthralled" with the handling of the CRf450 for the last number of years.

Offline racer x

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Re: 2014 Maico's
« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2013, 11:09:59 PM »
ok, i just don't know, they seem to go around the track alright. with todays tech it makes it hard to believe that any bike could be ill handling, ya know.

Offline Stusmoke

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Re: 2014 Maico's
« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2013, 09:09:47 AM »
ok, i just don't know, they seem to go around the track alright. with todays tech it makes it hard to believe that any bike could be ill handling, ya know.

In stock trim, I agree with MXA. I need to gets me some of the pot that Hondas suspension department was smoking when the specd the spring rates in their 450s. Its as if they are designed for an endo competition in the front and a seat bounce competition in the rear. I think majority of the 09-12 CRF450Rs handling woes came from the suspension, but once you fixed that up it was just an ok handling bike. OK handling, not even in the same league as the RMZ. But then again once you fixed it up it didn't like there was an earthquake right under your bike when at speed.
See you in Hell or Motocross Des Nations, whichever I get to first.

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Offline opfermanmotors

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Re: 2014 Maico's
« Reply #55 on: March 05, 2013, 11:50:22 AM »
So, let's break everything down.


A. They took SO long to release the product.

First off, would you want them to just release the model unchanged? They spent many years doing R&D to improve the bikes and get the best quality parts rather than just throw something together from 1999 and reprint it.  They came up with a plan to allow people to get a bike today and easily add new features they make in the future without having to buy a new bike.  They spent time to get things done right.

Has this happened before?  It's happened MANY times over.  There are many examples out there of products that took a long time to get out the door, it happens for whatever reason but the end product should be judged on its merits.

Let's see, Guns & Roses singer Axel Rose took what, 11 years to release Chinese Democracy?  3D Realms took almost 15 years to develop the game "Duke Nuke'em Forever", they announced this game back in 1997 and released it in 2011.  Boeing's 787 Dreamliner was behind in production and development. 

Some companies never even get to release their product due to various issues.  How about Tucker's automobile?  It was the best at the time and was stopped by the big 3.


B. The issues that prevented release could have been prevented.

Hindsight is 20/20.  Even if this is the case, although I haven't seen any specific example here, that's not what happened and so the situation at hand has to be dealt with to move forward.  Things have moved forward and it's all in the past now.  Does this have anything to do with the actual quality of the product?

C. They should just release a 1981 Replica.

Why?  What's the point?  Infact, Maico Only does this already using a 1983 engine and they call it the "S1".  There are various models of the S1 and they sell from $14,000 to $20,000.   Seriously.  Maico International was looking to build and develop modern bikes not rehash the past for some vintage races and as nice as those vintage remake bikes are, $20,000 for a twin shock 81 replica with a 83 motor is quite the price tag.  How much of a market is left there, especially when 2 strokes are back on the rise for modern bikes.

D. The prices for the bikes are high.

Well, they haven't released the prices yet.  No one is being forced to buy them.  As with anything, the prices could adjust based on demand and mass production.  Prices for Japanese bikes which are mass produced are not free, they aren't $2500 like they were 20 years ago themselves and a lot of those bikes at stock have low quality parts in comparison to what Maico International has been stating.

E. We've been waiting and they keep showing us teasers

At least everyone knows they're coming.  Before a product is built a lot of manufactures, especially ones just starting, will hype out and show the product before it's released to gain interest.  That's the deal, otherwise by the time it's released if you're only hearing about it then the sales would be zero.  At least all of you have had a few years to save up to buy one now, so you should have no excuse not to be ripping on one by the end of this year.


F. Maico name is tarnished

Young kids don't even know the Maico name.  I see two kinds of people, ones who remember the old bikes and see my old bike and talk about how great they are compared to the Jap bikes or kids who are like "is that a honda?".  Few if any even know they made bikes beyond the early 80s.  Only real die hards even know and few if any even know about the comming and going of Maico.  I think most ppl who have paid attention are ppl who knew the bikes, were into them and still looked into them in later years.  The internet has helped also to spread the information that ya, they were being produced beyond 1981.  So even if it was somewhat tarnished from a select few due to Bower, MStar, etc. I think that they know enough about the brand to look past anything that happened in the past 30 years and those that don't will see a new brand emerge and maybe find out about it's past.


G. Maico needs to win races

Maico International has been winning races across Europe and UK.  In the states obviously the AMA rules prevent the bikes at the professional level that I know of due to the production rule at this point and the CC limits.  Maybe that will change in the future but for now Maico International has won several titles over the past few years using their prototype bikes in races they are able to enter.


H. TSM needs to disclose everything

I don't see any reason to think negatively about TSM attending the press conference or that there would be a conspiracy of some sort about the press release on the bikes!  Doesn't make sense to me and when people start to get the bikes I'm sure everyone will be posting their opinions here anyway so we'll all hear everything first hand in the end.


I. Take it easy

Let's say worst case scenario for some reason the bikes don't get released and everything goes away.  What happens?  Nothing, you don't loose anything and it's no skin off your back.  The people who worked hard at M.I. would be the ones who would really have suffered to go through all this work.  That being said, I think they most likely want this to succeed and will do everything they can to make it happen.

So just take it easy!



Modest beginings start with a single blow of a horn, man.

Offline Stusmoke

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Re: 2014 Maico's
« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2013, 02:12:44 PM »
So, let's break everything down.


A. They took SO long to release the product.

First off, would you want them to just release the model unchanged? They spent many years doing R&D to improve the bikes and get the best quality parts rather than just throw something together from 1999 and reprint it.  They came up with a plan to allow people to get a bike today and easily add new features they make in the future without having to buy a new bike.  They spent time to get things done right.

Has this happened before?  It's happened MANY times over.  There are many examples out there of products that took a long time to get out the door, it happens for whatever reason but the end product should be judged on its merits.

Let's see, Guns & Roses singer Axel Rose took what, 11 years to release Chinese Democracy?  3D Realms took almost 15 years to develop the game "Duke Nuke'em Forever", they announced this game back in 1997 and released it in 2011.  Boeing's 787 Dreamliner was behind in production and development. 

Some companies never even get to release their product due to various issues.  How about Tucker's automobile?  It was the best at the time and was stopped by the big 3.


B. The issues that prevented release could have been prevented.

Hindsight is 20/20.  Even if this is the case, although I haven't seen any specific example here, that's not what happened and so the situation at hand has to be dealt with to move forward.  Things have moved forward and it's all in the past now.  Does this have anything to do with the actual quality of the product?

C. They should just release a 1981 Replica.

Why?  What's the point?  Infact, Maico Only does this already using a 1983 engine and they call it the "S1".  There are various models of the S1 and they sell from $14,000 to $20,000.   Seriously.  Maico International was looking to build and develop modern bikes not rehash the past for some vintage races and as nice as those vintage remake bikes are, $20,000 for a twin shock 81 replica with a 83 motor is quite the price tag.  How much of a market is left there, especially when 2 strokes are back on the rise for modern bikes.

D. The prices for the bikes are high.

Well, they haven't released the prices yet.  No one is being forced to buy them.  As with anything, the prices could adjust based on demand and mass production.  Prices for Japanese bikes which are mass produced are not free, they aren't $2500 like they were 20 years ago themselves and a lot of those bikes at stock have low quality parts in comparison to what Maico International has been stating.

E. We've been waiting and they keep showing us teasers

At least everyone knows they're coming.  Before a product is built a lot of manufactures, especially ones just starting, will hype out and show the product before it's released to gain interest.  That's the deal, otherwise by the time it's released if you're only hearing about it then the sales would be zero.  At least all of you have had a few years to save up to buy one now, so you should have no excuse not to be ripping on one by the end of this year.


F. Maico name is tarnished

Young kids don't even know the Maico name.  I see two kinds of people, ones who remember the old bikes and see my old bike and talk about how great they are compared to the Jap bikes or kids who are like "is that a honda?".  Few if any even know they made bikes beyond the early 80s.  Only real die hards even know and few if any even know about the comming and going of Maico.  I think most ppl who have paid attention are ppl who knew the bikes, were into them and still looked into them in later years.  The internet has helped also to spread the information that ya, they were being produced beyond 1981.  So even if it was somewhat tarnished from a select few due to Bower, MStar, etc. I think that they know enough about the brand to look past anything that happened in the past 30 years and those that don't will see a new brand emerge and maybe find out about it's past.


G. Maico needs to win races

Maico International has been winning races across Europe and UK.  In the states obviously the AMA rules prevent the bikes at the professional level that I know of due to the production rule at this point and the CC limits.  Maybe that will change in the future but for now Maico International has won several titles over the past few years using their prototype bikes in races they are able to enter.


H. TSM needs to disclose everything

I don't see any reason to think negatively about TSM attending the press conference or that there would be a conspiracy of some sort about the press release on the bikes!  Doesn't make sense to me and when people start to get the bikes I'm sure everyone will be posting their opinions here anyway so we'll all hear everything first hand in the end.


I. Take it easy

Let's say worst case scenario for some reason the bikes don't get released and everything goes away.  What happens?  Nothing, you don't loose anything and it's no skin off your back.  The people who worked hard at M.I. would be the ones who would really have suffered to go through all this work.  That being said, I think they most likely want this to succeed and will do everything they can to make it happen.

So just take it easy!


Can I just say the thing about duke nukem forever doesn't do much to help your case. That game wasn't worth its weight in cow s**t

Other than that, I agree. Completely. I'm not the most enthusiastic about older bikes, why would I be? I was 14 years away from my press release when Maico dropped the earthshattering 1981 490 mega 2. Which I still absolutely must ride. I never experienced the wonders of the old machines, though I can definitely appreciate their place in motocross history and their value to collectors. 
But I know the name and I respect it.
See you in Hell or Motocross Des Nations, whichever I get to first.

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2001 Honda CR125

Offline racer x

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Re: 2014 Maico's
« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2013, 08:06:28 PM »
stu, be glad you didn't ride those old bikes! they turn better but thats about it. they are fun to race once in awhile but you will be thankfull you have a modern bike as an every day ride.

Offline opfermanmotors

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Re: 2014 Maico's
« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2013, 11:38:35 PM »
Quote
Can I just say the thing about duke nukem forever doesn't do much to help your case. That game wasn't worth its weight in cow s**t

That's just an example of a long development time, a product that got delayed for whatever reasons.  My next point was every product should be judged on its merit, long or short development.

Modest beginings start with a single blow of a horn, man.

Offline EJ

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Re: 2014 Maico's
« Reply #59 on: March 06, 2013, 06:51:12 AM »
Glad to see some more info Opferman!!

I hope Maico International will come out swinging with their full line up soon!!  Keep us posted here please!!