Why Are Used 4-Strokes Cheaper Than 2-Strokes?

You may or may not have noticed, but in my area, as well as many others in the United States, you can buy a used 4-stroke dirt bike of the same year as a 2-stroke for same price if not cheaper. Why is this, you may ask? There are many factors as to why this is happening. First of all, you have to realize that an “Asking price” is NOT the same as a “Selling price” on almost every occasion. While there are many people asking “X” amount of dollars for a their 2007 KX250F, they are almost always selling it for less, even if their price is “Firm”.

 4-Strokes Still Dominate The Racing Realm

2005 YZ250F - $1500

While most racers in the U.S. are still buying new four-strokes because of their few advantages, many are going back to the ol’ faithful two-smoker. Why would they do that? For one, they are tired of dealing with 4-strokes. The maintenance, the breaking, the rebuilding, the billing, and more maintenance. Now, I’m not a hater of 4-strokes, and what I just said isn’t always the case, because some of them last a long time with just a little maintenance. It’s just that in the long run they will almost always cost more to operate because of more moving parts. Yes, a 4-stroke engine has almost twice as many moving parts as a 2-stroke. 4-strokes are like ticking time bombs, because when something breaks, it usually takes out many more parts with it, resulting in a “blown-up” engine.

Why Buy A Loaf of Bread When You “Know” It’s Stale…

If the owners aren’t sick of their 4-stroke after the first rebuild, they usually are after a second time. Not only do the parts add up to a large sum, but if you have the work  done by a shop, it’s nearly doubled. You have a piston and rings, valves, timing chain, chain tensioner, valve springs, shims, maybe the cylinder head ($400+ alone for most bikes) and cam(s) if it was run out of oil, possibly the crankshaft, bearings (they add up quickly), and cylinder re-sleeved or plated if it got scored. Although not every part needs to be replaced after every engine failure, but you can still see why it adds up to a much bigger bill compared to a 2-stroke engine rebuild. Some people put so much money into an engine rebuild that they could have almost bought another good bike for back-up instead….

2004 CR125R - $2000

Now you know why there are so many 4-stroke motocross bikes in the classifieds that need to be rebuilt; riders on a budget buy them, haul the bike to the track only for it to take a dump on them,  then they often don’t have money to fix them. To add to the fact, most riders don’t know how to or are not confident enough to work on a 4-stroke engine themselves because of their complexity, which is why they bring it to a shop to have it done (greatly increasing the rebuild cost).

I could give you a list of prices for new parts on a four-stroke engine rebuild, but it just feels redundant. You can look it up if you really feel compelled to (Let’s just say you could probably buy a used bike for the amount, especially after you include the cost of labor). It’s for this very reason that riders are switching to a 2-stroke. Racing is expensive, and if you are on a budget to start with, why dig a deeper hole?

It’s A Buyers Market

Back to the “Asking” and “Selling” price, most people post their bikes for more than they are actually worth. It’s because they see the same bike for a certain amount, so they think theirs is worth at least that much too because that’s what they are “Going for”. This is far from the truth. In fact, a lot of people never even sell their bikes because they are asking too much. Smart sellers, or someone that want a quick sale, will either take at least a couple hundred off of their price initially when posting it, or they negotiate when someone comes to look at it. The only time you will be able to sell your bike in a reasonable amount of time when you are “Firm” on the price is when it’s already much cheaper than any other bike like it on the market. Even then, a lot of people go down another hundred or so, just to get rid of it.

In the end, it’s all about supply and demand, and the demand for cheap 2-strokes is exponentially increasing because of how cheap it is to operate them over a long period of time.

Mint 2007 CRF250R - $2100

 -Tom Stark – Motocrosshideout.com

Note: this article is not to sway you to buy a 2-stroke. It is merely news and information on what the off-road motorcycle market is doing, and what people are currently buying. Although, it does make 2-strokes just that much more appealing!

Recent Related Posts

68 thoughts on “Why Are Used 4-Strokes Cheaper Than 2-Strokes?

  1. Very very true. Have not really bought a used two stroke, but for example of cheap 4 strokes: The two CRF450’s I’ve owned… the first, a 2006, was a first owner bike with about 20 hrs on it. The bike was spotless and stock, not even the cases were touched. He payed full retail from the dealer whereas I payed him 2000$ flat. He was asking 2200$, it even came with a new FMF Silencer. My second, a 2009 EFI, was that same situation (first owner, and this time was barely broken in with about 10 hrs on it), I payed 3800. But what doesn’t make sense is the guy down my street with a super clean 2007 YZ250 2-stroke asking 4000$, also spotless, but he makes this claim (that I am uncertain of) saying two strokes are back in demand it will definitely sell at that price. I don’t doubt that there isn’t a market for them, but obviously some things don’t add up here….

  2. I have been seeing this coming for quite some time. I believe 2 stroke-cycle engines have the potential to be as efficient and much more powerfull than 4 stroke-cycle engines. The weight and cost advantages are there as well. Hopefully some major players continue to develope that untapped potential.

  3. Good to be aware what is happening in the USA…here in Brazil used KTM´s 150 SX is being sold so fast that it´s becoming hard to find one. As soon as they appear on classifieds they are sold.
    And it´s remarkable the amount of two strokes along the tracks are much greater than some years ago.

  4. I started to notice this the last few months… Im a craigslist junky and began to notice how cheap the used four strokes were going for. 2 stroke for life!

  5. One of my best friends wrecked his knee and had to sell his ’06 RMZ450. He had been trying to sell it all summer, started out at $2600, ended up selling it last weekend for $1650 with 3 full sets of gear, Alpinstar Tech 10 boots, a Fox helmets, etc. The bike was just about perfect, brand new top end, full Factory Connection suspension, White Bros exhaust, etc. I think I could get that much for my ’98 YZ250 right now without all the gear!!

  6. 2 strokes are all that is right with racing. 4 strokes are nothing but a fad. An expensive, well planned out fad but, a fad just the same. It is however, a fad that will be here for quite some time as the big 4 have billions invested and will squeeze every ounce of mula from the followers before they catch on.

    For anyone who thinks differently, look at something as simple as music. The Righteous bros. song “Unchained Melodies” that became a huge hit in the mid 60’s. I heard a DJ talk one day about the song, he said he remembers playing it in the 60’s and people couldn’t get enough of it. Then it faded away, years later, he said the movie Ghost came out and it shot to the number 2 spot in requests. It’s only because someone it was in a popular movie and people wanted to be associated with what’s popular. Even tho’ they could have bought the album/tape/cd since it’s earliest playing ( the 50’s ) but since “someone” said it was the in thing, everyone wanted it.

    The modern day 4 stroke is akin to this, it too has been around for a long time, actually over 110 years and was never a blip on the racing radar, but good marketing and a populace of followers at their disposal, the big 4 have convinced those that if you’re not riding a 4 stroke, you are old school and one step away from being a cave man. Sadly, enough followers have bought this line of BS and it is what dictates racing and most of the magazines don’t want to look stupid, so they push this agenda.

    What has to happen ( and I’ve said it many times ) is some well heeled companies need to start a new and fair racing program for the people and by the people, it would snow ball and this would give people a say, an option and more importantly, they would see the truth.

  7. ^^^^^i agree. the only problem is until someone fast and famous actually races and does well on a two stroke they wont make a complete comeback.

    i dont believe however that 4 strokes are a fad. cc vs cc they are still competitive, especially for less skilled riders. a pro will probably be quicker and a 250 2 stroke than a 250f but over a full race distance your average clubman would probably do better on the f.

    there are enough people with enough money to keep buying and servicing 4 strokes that they wont fade away. yes 2 strokes have had a resurgence but they will never completely take over unless there are some real advances in 2 stroke technology.

    in australia we have cc vs cc, the only problem is that the fastest guys are picked up by the factories and ride and win on 4 strokes. the public see 4 strokes winning and that is what they buy. the last race i did a couple weeks ago there were only 2 of us 2 stroke riders on the line in the 250 class. i was talking to my mate the other day and where he lives most of the fast guys ride 2 strokes. it seems the local economy has a lot to do with which bikes are ridden but just by having a series that runs cc vs cc wont necessarily mean that 2 strokes make a full comeback. at least it hasnt in australia

  8. @Chump6784 What did you say, cc for cc a 4 stroke is an equal? The best 250f makes 38 horsepower, a 150 KTM makes 40 and a KTM 250 makes 50 bhp. A Maico 250 makes over 60 bhp. Where does the comment “unless there are some real advances in 2 stroke technology” come from?

  9. Look at lap times ren. Motocross involves corners and less than perfect surfaces. If Motocross was run on dyno’s then the two stroke would be king. Pure HP alone doesn’t win. As has been said in many tests between cc vs cc there is bugger all difference in lap times and the fact remains that 4 strokes are easier to ride fast. If you have the skill to really ride a two stroke then they can be faster but ultimately it comes down to the rider. That is why I said advances need to be made for 2 strokes to take over. As for now cc vs cc LAP TIMES are pretty much equal

  10. Every test I have read that pits a 2 stroke against a 4 stroke ( although the 2 stroke is 1/2 the size or close to it ) but irregardless, the fastest time is always the 2 stroke and yet the slowest is always the 2 stroke as well. Meaning, if the rider is good and aggressive, the smoker will always win. So my summary is that 4 strokes can be as fast if the 2 stroke is lazy, and it also means the 4 stroke is easier to ride but by no means faster. Along the same lines of a dragster is faster than a Nascar racer ( Nascar, an embarrassing form of racing here in the states ) but the Nascar is easier to drive but faster? If you wanted to be the best, what would you drive, a Nascar racer or a dragster?

  11. chump6784 has a point. Lap times are mostly dependent on rider. As we have seen from many tests, 125 and 150 2-strokes post the same lap times as 250Fs. But we also see 250Fs post same lap times as 250 2-strokes. In fact if you look at lap times between 250Fs and 450s in pro races the top riders are often within less than half a second of each other.

    There are many factors to making a bike fast. Pure HP is good for long straights. But 4-strokes more efficiently put power to the ground (search big bang).

    One thing people could do to make 2-strokes faster without major advances in 2-strokes is porting. If you are racing cc vs cc you don’t need a 15-20hp advantage. Take a 250 and port it for low end. You will still have a 10hp advantage but you will now also have a low end advantage. Use the low rpm traction out of turns and the high hp on long straights or in good traction conditions.

    In loamy, sandy and muddy conditions a 2-stroke will be superior. In hard pack it becomes tricky. The porting should help for those conditions. Problem is people think they need a high hp, peaky 2-stroke.

  12. @Chump and 2 stroke rev, I am aware of the conditions that affect lap times for both, however, if the rider is aggressive, the 2 stroke will win. But beyond this, we can argue all we want but the fact remains the same, the big 4 ( being controlled by brand H ) will not let racing become fair. They know if racing was allowed to be closer, cc per cc, they would be exposed.

    The point of this article ( used 4 stroke values… ) is a good one and although I took it off topic with my comment, it seems no matter what the people have to endure ( low re-sale, huge up front costs, huge repair costs, etc. ) the followers still buy what they see on TV, racing is not fair and this is what we need to change. It’s obvious that their marketing push over rides every negative the 4 strokes have and this is so complexing.

  13. A good way to test that theory would be to take say, a KTM 250 exc enduro motor, and put it into the SX 250 frame and give it the SX gearing as well. Would be easy enough to do, and I’m surprised nobody has tried it.

  14. @ Ren

    I definitely agree with what you say about the fastest and slowest lap times being on a 2-stroke. I think a major factor in this is the test riders. We have to remember that magazine test riders spend some 80-99% of their time on 4-strokes. We all know that a 2-stroke takes more training to take it to the limit. So imagine if they had proper 2-stroke practice time.

    The problem with current 2-stroke MX bikes is slick surfaces. The powerband makes it harder to get traction, and this is when 4-strokes have their advantage. This is when proper porting and flywheel weights can really benefit a 2-stroke and keep them faster than 4-strokes.

  15. @ Turquine

    I think the easiest way to do it is to just get the SX ported. Or put the XC cylinder on the SX engine. I am also surprised no one has tried it.

  16. Again, off topic ( sorry Charles ) but I am so amazed at something no one writes about. I have a 2009 Yamaha 250F in my shop ( needs work, as usual ) and I rode it around my track and out in the field to check it out. I was riding it like my 2 strokes ( both fast, aggressive and slow ) and it would constantly “flame-out” and die as I would try to chug it around. It did hook up ok, but if you wanted to putt around like a trials bike, it wouldn’t do it. I realize racers don’t do this but, for the reat of us ( the 95 percenters ) I really ask myself, why would anyone want one?

    Then for gits and shiggles, I drag raced it against my old trustworthy KDX 200 for fun. I was on the 250f and I weigh about 40 lbs more than my buddy on the KDX and the KDX pulled away about 1/2 way between first and second gear and by 6th gear, the Kawi was roughly 250′ ahead. When we changed bikes, we had the same results, but the distance was 200 to 225′ ahead. I really asked myself, why would anyone want a bike like this, even if it didn’t need rebuilds that would eat up my kids college funds.

  17. There are a few things to consider:

    1.No one will buy an old 4 stroke because of the cost to rebuild it. On the other hand a two stroke can be easily restored to greatness.
    2. people are seeing a second coming on two strokes due to the shear fun of riding one. As to riding a four stroke Yawn!!
    3. Two stroke 250s have 50 HP powerband distributed in only 3000 RPM whereby you have to have a controlled throttle hand. A 250 4 stroke offers 38 HP in 8500 RPM a vastly greater flexibility in the powerband that is easier to ride.
    4. here in Brazil a used two stroke MX bike will keep its price for years whereas a 4 stroke will steadily fall until scrap.

  18. WAAAAAAYYY off topic but interetsing anyway. The last 2 stroke MotoGP 125 ( single ) made 62 horsepower to the rear wheel. The last MotoGP 250 ( twin ) used two 125 cylinders and it made 120 to the wheel and the last ( 2002 ) MotoGP 500 ( 4 cylinder ) was making close to 228 horse. If the 500’s continued to evolve, they would easily make 240 plus horsepower. Think of a 600cc 4 cylinder 2 stroke. Or even crazier yet, a 750 6 cylinder 2 stroke. Near 400 horse anyone?

  19. I agree with many of the comments above. Yes single lap times are faster on the smoker, but overall lap times seem to be faster on the stroker. I believe the way tracks are being built / redesigned they are getting tighter, with jumps / obstacles right out of a corner. It’s this short run into a jumps / obstacles that favor the torque of the stroker. This seems to be the complete opposite in off road racing. The more open style favors the smoker, plus the more difficult obstacles requiring that the engine to be chugged favors the smoker. This is why you will see more smokers than strokers at the off road racing events. If you make a mistake on a smoker, its harder requiring more effort and talent than if you make a mistake on a stroker. Not to mention, those of use who grew up on smokers are getting older… yes I said older. The younger up-coming riders have been on strokers as soon as they could ditch their 85’s.

  20. So you have to ask yourself as the tide turns back, will the big 4 begin selling 2 strokes again and if they do would you buy one from them knowing they put you through this may lay of trying to shove 4 strokes down your throats?

    I went through this in the late 1960s when the 2 stroke banished all racing 4 strokes from the plant! History repeats itself and those who didn’t learn before and tried to repeat establishing another failure at our expense should be boycotted!

    Buy from those who support the consumer!

  21. If the big four start selling new 2 strokes as a whole, then they would see the market changing and the not bleeding money to the 4t side of the factory… As it stands now, I subscribe to Ren’s co tention with Yamaha today… It is hard to deny Yamaha YZ250 used value though because thet are still being produced. The sheeple want familarity with new or used and this is why Yamahas are popular.

  22. hi ren, just a note about the power figures from the 2 stroke moto gp days.
    your around about right with the 125s and 250s [crank figures not rear wheel] the 2002 nsr500 had 190bhp at the back wheel. there was no way the 500s at that time could produce over 220 bhp. the only bike that could beat the 500s was the rcv211v which was a 990cc v5 4 stroke which although being slower into the and around the corners was faster in the straights as the unfair rules would show. the rc211v was usually eclipsed by the KR3 triple which was usually the fastest bike through the speed traps on many circuits with shorter straights.

  23. @Slalow, I do not want to get into an argument with you on this but, simple math would tell you that a single 125 making 60, would make 120 as a 250 twin and then it could easily make twice that with 2 twins in a sense “put together” to make a 500 4 cyl. I realize there are other factors involved, such as drag co-efficient, weight, more moving parts, etc. etc. but the final numbers can be ( and were ) close.

    In regards to your horsepower for the 500’s is concerned, you are incorrect. Honda’s last iteration ( semi prototype ) made well over 200 horse. Cagiva ( and other’s ) also fooled around with trying to ready a ( new ) 500 making over 200 horse. The problem was, among others, wicked power deliveries that were too hard to control, so teams scaled back the power. Better tires and computer mapping were starting to solve these issue’s but, there were a handful of 500cc 2 strokes making this kind of power. There also is a Euro co. making 500cc 2 strokes for the well heeled that make close to these numbers and we all know that the 2 stroke advancement has not been at the forefront, technology wise, so to make the jump from high 190’s to well over 200 in ten years seems astronomical at best.

  24. In 1992 nsr 500 had 165 hp. In 1993 they tried to squeeze max hp, the bike came out with efi and was making over 210 hp, ’93 nsr 500 was the first bike to break 200 mph barrier, it could touch 345 km/h, and that’s with irregular firing order (big bang) which is down on power compared to evenly spaced firing orger. Mick Doohan said it was too violent, and they dropped the fuel injection and went back to 165 hp carbed version.
    I think he just didn’t want to experiment new technology with broken leg after the crash, and now there is 45 hp boost to already fast as it is 165 hp bike, that’s 27% increase of top end power with same or slightly more bottom and midrange power, cause all they did is put computer controlled fuel injection on it.
    Technology advanced a lot now, the ecu’s are faster and more powerfull, like fuel maps, better ignition maps than 15 years ago, better injectors, ect.
    125 makes 62 hp, but if you couple 4 cylinders together they would make more power than single 125 or twin 250, cause you save on crankshaft weight, and cylinders are supplementing each other when they are together. Look at tss 500 which is 2 cr 250’s making 112 hp, that’s 56 hp to the wheel for a cr 250. And you get more power to the rear wheel by saving on tranny gears weight and now it has to spin only one clutch basket which weighs a little bit more, but still way less than 2 or 4 slightly lighter baskets, one chain, and one rear wheel instead of 4.

  25. hi guys, sure, theres no question the power was available, an example was the muz 500 of 1998/99 which had the engine from thier sidecar unit which initially had close to 200 bhp but had to be heavily detuned as there was no power delivery. sure the knowhow is there to do a 500 4 over 200 hp now but there was never a 500cc gp bike raced that had over 200 bhp.

    if you have a source that provides diffrent info then please let me know as i have been studying gp machines for over 25 years and have never heard of this, if the last nsr 500s had over 200 bhp a rc211v 990 would have not been able to pass that bike in a straight line in the way in which it was doing. doohans 1991 nsr 500 had 181 bhp – a direct source from hrc – which acheived 192 mph at hockenheim in germany in 91.

    honda never qouted a direct figure for itohs 93 nsr [they lied to the press and told them it was using carbs] but the injection system to my knowledge was only raced twice by them, again if this is wrong please let me know.

    after several breakdowns including one in a race, doohans own words of “are we here to test or are we here to race as this bike has no throttle control” this led to him dropping it and going back to the big bang.

    to give another example the highest top speed recorded by a 500 gp bike [during a race] was max biaggis yzr in 99 which done 199.8 mph at the paul ricard circuit in france, this machine according to yamahas own press pack produced 191 bhp. cheers

  26. ah, thanks for the clarification Wyatt…. good to know. Just seems like things got off track.

  27. @Rafael PT, this is a 2 stroke site for 2 stroke guys. There are many sites for you 4 strokers. While this is not my site/forum, it is just my opinion but, I would ask if you could leave your pro 4 stroke comments there.

  28. Thank you Ren Schmidt,but I know exactly where I’m writing and my comment is an opinion that is divided between 4 stokes and 2 strokes. These comments are about an article “Why Are Used 4-Strokes Cheaper Than 2-Strokes?”. If you do not like my comment, I am sorry but I have as much right to write like you.

  29. because they are “easier” and everyone says you need one to be in the mix… thankfully, more people are seeing thru this reasoning!!!

  30. What would be the point of practicing on a two-stroke and then trying to race a four-stroke? The riding styles and techniques are essentially two completely different methods.

  31. Great article,
    Found this online looking for guidance. Saw Jim Gibsons Protoge Mitch Van de Mortel at Glen Helen shred on a two stroke beating pros on 450 fourstrokes.
    Anyone know anything about this kid?

  32. People practice more than race and have a motorcycle in which maintenance is cheaper to practice… better. The four strokes are more competitive to race.

  33. @Rafael PT – “The four strokes are more competitive to race” please could you provide a source for this comment.

    the problem is the sheep are led to the pen, the reasons given to change motorcycle engines in the premier race classes to 4 stroke are, were and still are ridiculous.

    the tyrants who tried so hard in the early 2000s to wipe 2 strokes off the planet [mostly driven by honda] are the most harmful and corrupt people ever to have graced the world of motorcycling.

    thankfully theyre corrupt plan to milk dry regular motorcyclists is starting to show signs of cracking as people are starting to wake up to their misleading, over hyped media enduced rubbish.

    due to the good people who run this website like many others are trying to let people know there is a choice and you dont have to be owned by a media circus. the 4 stroke engine is great if you want to go touring or you really dont want to put much effort into your bike or also if have a boat that needs an anchor.

    as barry sheene once said “4 strokes are muck spreaders”

    they have no place in ultimate motorcycling competition and they only have this due to the fact they have exploited the rules on all genres so this overrated dinasour of an engine can have at least twice the capacity to make it at least competitve.

  34. Hey guys, don´t worry about RafaelPT, he is problably a typical brazilian racer – rich and smug.
    These people are so easy to be brainwashed by a fad.
    Unlike the others here, he uses shorts sentences with statements without arguments to endorse them
    I wonder the reason behind the fact that it seens to be hard for some people, specially here, in a 3nd world country, to admit the 4 strokes are not suitable for them…so many riders are selling 4 strokes after exploding the motor and quit riding because costs.
    At the same time, fortunatelly, the 2 strokes are showing up more and more, sometimes bringing surprises at amateur races… this weekend I saw a guy taking the 3nd in VX2 on a 03 YZ 125 and another a guy winning the VX1 on a 02 YZ 250 racing against the 450´s.
    Imagine the the 4T faces after the checkered flag…more than 10 people running to congratulate the winner, people screaming around the track…it´s only for 2 strokers!!

  35. I’m not Brazilian, I’m Portuguese. I’m not rich, I have a YZ250 2stroke 2006 and 2007 KXF450 to sell. I run for fun and I have more fun in a 2stroke but the bike does not allow many errors to drive and need to have much better physical preparation.

  36. Ok first of all, @Ren Schmidt; that was completely unnecessary, Rafael just posted a completely harmless (unbiased) statement and you just went straight in and bit his head off. You ask him to leave his pro four stroke arguments somewhere else? Well, number one, it’s none of your concern if he decides to post an opinion on this site; and number 2, as a proud defender of the 2 stroke crusade you should be more open to debate here. There’s no point preaching to the choir (the members of this site), your diatribes should be saved for those who don’t agree with you already such as our friend Rafael. I don’t believe I’ve seen you presenting your arguments in force over at Thumper Talk and the like for example. All you seem to do is repeat your same argument on every thread here to people who already share your opinion. Lastly, an opinion cannot be verified without debate, and if you can’t hack someone making a mildly four stroke friendly comment once in a while, then I don’t believe you should bother being part of this debate.

  37. @C’mon! First off, if you spent anytime looking around at all motorcycle forums ( especially the 4 stroke sites ) you will see endless comments and arguments from me in regards to the 2 stroke. So please go do this before you open your mouth. You will find almost everyone of them spewing the same thing after a short time. They all say something like this: “Mr. Schmidt, this is a forum for motocrossers and more specifically 4 strokes, if you do not have any related stories ( about 4 strokes ) then quit posting or we will delete your comments.” Which they do.

    Secondly, are you not bashing me as much for my opinion? My feelings are, there are enough pro 4 stroke sites and to be honest with you, I am sick and tired of the rhetoric coming from the 4 stroke crowd and I don’t want to hear/read it on a pro 2 stroke site. If he ( and you ) cannot take it, go elsewhere! Yes, we are all entitled to our opinions, and I took Charles article off topic but, it is for pro 2 stroke fans!

    So what are you doing to defend the 2 stroke other than arguing with other smokers? Many people talk it but do nothing about it. We are in constant discussions with the AMA about policy and becoming a board member, we send countless letters to the factories, we support 2 stroke racers and are fighting on many other fronts…. and you?? SORRY CHARLES!!!!!

  38. Many people talk it but do nothing about it. — well said ren

    the amount of guys out there who swear blind about 2 strokes who own 4 strokes and just take whatever opinion is thrown at them is alarming, i know people like this and its true, they are waiting for other people to do something about it so they can have the 2 stroke back and say this is what i always wanted.

    your either in it for the 2 strokes or you aint as far as im concerned which means no half measures, i dont go to the races while they are holding 4 stroke races and i will certinlay never,never ride or own a 4 stroke – why? because i stand up for what i believe in which is the 2 stroke and all that goes with good or bad. this is some peoples lives [including mine] and it boils me when i see guys preaching about 2 strokes then go and buy a 4 stroke.

    doesnt mean people cant have an opinion but you have to have the actual nerve and determination when your backs against the wall.

  39. 2 stroke prices bottomed out over the Winter of 2009 (North America)and have been climbing steadily ever since while 4 stroke prices have fallen off a cliff in the last year.A recent example would be a nice 04 TC450 advertized for less then a YZ125 of a similar year.

    Not only must privateers pay the increased maintenance costs of a 4T, now they also have a machine with no resale value at the end of the season.

    There is nothing inherently wrong with a 4T other then high maintenance costs.What is at fault is that a consortium (AMA,FIM,Honda ETC.)of short sighted people have taken it upon them selves to eliminate 2Ts from motorcycle competition.

    I am very certain that,even with the present idiotic rules, with a couple of years of factory level development and a few top flight riders a new generation 2T would lay waste to the 4T hordes.

  40. ^^^^ well said…. I am kind of surprised that more mid pack privateers arent running 250 2t’s…. From a $$ point of view? I dont think running a 250 2t vs. 450 would really alter their mid to back of the moto order…

  41. @Nom, you are 100% correct but, in a day and age of following whatever is the latest fad, to show up on a 2 stroke would be akin to someone going to a party of of people under 30 and whipping out an old Motorola Dynatac 8000x phone or going to someone’s house to play video games and all they have is an Atari with pong as their only game option. Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying 2 strokes are old, outdated and as advanced as these old phones/games but, people see 2 strokes in the same light.

    So anyone reading this post who is under 30 and a fan of the 2 stroke, how do we convince guys ( and girls ) of this genre’ to ride and race a smoker? I’ve raced fans of 4 strokes and handily schooled them with my smokers, yet they still persist in their devotion to the diesels, what do we ALL do to stem this tide? What is the answer? How do you convince those who see the world as flat to open their eyes and see it round? How do you convince someone that they are spending 100 times as much and could be much faster ( with some saddle time ) on a smoker and even enjoy it more and can do all or most of the work themselves? I am at a huge loss in trying to do so…..

  42. Simple comparison, new 250F/450F bikes run $7000-$8000+ and they sell for about 1/4 of that is 2 years. Plus, the expenses they accrue add it all up you are in it for well over $10,000 which is just stupid.

    If you like throwing money down rat holes, buy the latest ‘Nascar’ bike and contribute to the sports decline. I have never watched Nascar, nor do I plan to since it is a COMMERCIAL for Mega Corps peddling insurance, home improvement, chain-stores. Nascar to me is the same as the ‘fake’ Wrestling on cable TV, oh no Bobby Joe is neck in neck with Billy Bob. During the break, Bobby Joe is pushing some jeans (Made in Mexico) running around in them. Or they are selling car insurance, just a bunch of crap.

    2 strokes made motocross exciting, affordable for an entry level rider to get in the sport. If you buy one of the ‘fragile’ 4 stroke bikes and it grenades good luck on paying for it.

    I have NEVER seen so many box bikes in my life 250F/450F bikes in pieces, too expensive to fix and NOT worth WASTING the money on them.

    I honestly do not see the big 4 dumping the 4 stroke bikes, they have evangelized the masses with the advertising, sport drinks, and 1/2 nude women enough they are here to stay.

    The sport has went into a Nascar event with Mega Corp’s advertising dollars being promoted to sell their sport drinks, insurance, market chain CHINA trinkets.

    I see the entire sport being nothing more than a Monster truck event in the future.

  43. Ronald Reagan said this, “energy policy based on the sharing of scarcity”.

    Bureaucrats people are voting for are strangling businesses, and of course out goes the hobbies (that create jobs).

    The present regime in Washington has FULL intentions of creating crisis to force America into a pre-industrial world.

    Oil is naturally occurring, it is not from fossils the biggest lie told next to the global warming swindle costing American’s BILLIONS and jobs.

  44. Lastly, if I had a dollar for all of the used 4 strokes up for sale right now, I would have thousands.

    Every week I see the same bike lowered by $200-$400 dollars and still for sale!

    On dealer showrooms, I see the same 4 stroke bikes with dust on them.

    4 strokes are EXPENSIVE, TOP HEAVY, HARD to START and most of all impossible to sell in this economy.

  45. Good stuff Ren… To me, it seems like a no brainer economically wise for a privateer to run a 2012 KTM 250SX. they are on the eligble bike list for Pro Racing as far as I know it… Maybe for 2012, we will see a smart privateer campaign one?!!!

  46. I own several 4t and 2t bikes, and they both have applications they excel in, however I firmly believe that a 2t with even a fraction of the development budget given to the 4t’s on an annual basis, and in the hands of a world class pilot would destroy the bigger heavier thumpers! The only reason they are not in the front of the pack is because for political reasons development largely ceased on them 10 years ago, and the best pilots in the world “all factory sponsored” all ride thumpers. I can tell you that a smoker demands an in shape pilot, lazy people are not fast on a 2T.

  47. @ Susuki_RM250_owner

    You’re crazy, oil is absolutely from fossils, as is coal. But as others have said, why does it matter anyway?

  48. More like “stupidity”.

    I’m not bashing anyone, I’m just going to say that everyone should be able to state their opinions without being harassed.

    It would be nice if they did it elsewhere, especially when it upsets so many, but whatever.

  49. No, credibility.

    Because when you put on a tinfoil hat and start spouting crackpot theories, people stop listening even if some of what you are saying is true. Who is going to listen to the ‘two stroke cause’ if it is going to be lumped in with stuff like phlogiston theory and self generating oil?

  50. what i have found lately is that once people are set on four strokes that is what they will buy and ride. i have mates that are selling their 2 strokes because they have just bought 4 strokes. they are trying to convince me to sell mine and get a 4 stroke because they find 4 strokes better for them.

    i tell them that i love my bike and the best thing is i can do a topend rebuild by myself for $200. they argue black and blue that 4 strokes are better and my simple reply is to tell me how good they are after they do a top end rebuild after 50 hours for $800.

    the thing i have found from these people tho is they ride a 96 model kx 250 then ride their mates 2011 rmz 250 and say “wow those 4 strokes are so much better” well dur. i tell them to ride a more recent 2 stroke and it will be heaps better than their kx too.
    another of my mates had a yz 250, put a PC pipe and muffler, vortex reed block, porting and set his suspension up for freestyle and then wonders why a stock kx250f is easier to ride. he isnt the most skilled rider yet his setup suits a good rider

    it is a fact that 4 strokes are easier to ride with their smooth and mellow powerband and this is the biggest draw card, especially for riders just getting into the sport and until something goes wrong they never see a downside of 4 strokes. it isnt until they experience these downsides that they see 4 strokes for what they are.

    i finished racing at the end of 2001. the yz250f got to australia in the last half of 2001 and my dad was convinced that 4 strokes were the way to go if i was to keep racing and that because it was a 4 stroke there would be less maintenance. i was talking to him yesterday and when i said about the rebuild costs of my bike compared to my brothers 250f he said “yeah but he wont have to rebuild as often as you”. he was one of those that was sucked in by the dealers at the time and doesnt believe me when i tell him he would be glad we grew up racing 2 strokes and not 4 strokes because he thought 2 strokes were expensive to run.

    all the marketing and dealers aim to sell 4 strokes. the consumer believes what they are told and it isnt until they have a blow up or do their first rebuild that they realise what they got into.

  51. My buddy and i both started on 125s a couple years back. after some time, he got a 250f and i got a 450. after they both blew up, we went to 250 smokers and never looked back. we ride for fun and the cost of a thumper rebuild is not within our budget

  52. I’ve been riding motocross my whole life and bought my first brand new 4 stroke at the age of 17. 6 new four strokes later at the age of 20 i had enough of riding them because every time i got on the bike i thought what if it blows up again? now i have a rm 250 2stroke and it’s so much more fun to ride.. you have enough power, you can throw the bike everywhere you want and if it’s broken you fix it yourself. i ride championships with a 2stroke and have half the costs.

  53. Down here in New Zealand we once again have a 125 class and the MX2 class is actuallt the 250 class – won this year by a 40 something year old Darryll King on a YZ250 smoker.

    The time is near that the Europeans take back control of the sport and bring back affordable bikes.

Leave a Reply