Open Letter from an Unhappy MX Fan
This berating may be viewed as some random individual who is voicing his singular and own misguided opinion. However, it is a letter from a MX fan that did get around the circuits, and did talk and listen to a lot of parents. These are the very parents that the next generations of MX fans and riders are built on. The people who are the reason MX have the support of sponsors like Redbull, Monster Energy just to mention a few. These are the same parents who are purchasing the bikes, gear and are paying the bills to keep those very same bikes and events running.
I am NOT a lone voice or a SINGLE opinion. There are many parents and 25 year old pilots, who no longer want to spend the vast amounts of dollars required to simply race and maintain a modern 4 stroke motor.
There are currently websites and clubs that run their own rules and their own race events. WOW
Why bother writing this letter then? – Simply put. I would really like to know why the body that is meant to be representing riders and upholding the rules is unfortunately off on its own mission with blinders on.
It is ironic to me and others that the one who is meant to enforce the rules has BENT / CHANGED them!
I am a parent, and I am the one buying the bikes and the parts, with a higher than average income. No different to a lot of the parents who have supported MX in the past or have abandoned MX due to the cost.
This is not a single voice, opinion or question from the grass roots of this sport.
I have kids, which I would have liked to have introduced to motocross. This unfortunately will not happen, as I refuse to purchase what has been dictated to me by the AMA. If I don’t purchase what is dictated to me by the AMA, then my options are simple. Don’t participate.
The logical choice of bike for my son would be severely disadvantage in every way! Disadvantaged in capacity and a lack of technology being transferred in favor of greater profits for Japan.
A choice forced on me based on the fact that I REFUSE to buy an UNRELIABLE, overpriced bike, and that the AMA have modified the rules to favor this expensive option.
There are many parents like me, who won’t be dictated too either, and simply don’t buy the bikes and don’t bother going to MX anymore. Why would they, no interest in watching somebody else’s son? These are the parents of marginalized riders. (A growing crowd)
Judging by the amount of people, websites and web pages in support of 2 strokes, it amazes me that the AMA simply continues from one year to the next, watching the sport erode away and the fans decline. It is clear as day light that there are fewer supporters and less bikes being sold. This being clear to a layman.
What's the real difference between these two motors?
You have created a Polo event (Exclusive club) out of MX. The only people that now race have a 100% sponsorship from a factory ride. (Even these sponsors are drying up) THERE ARE NO PRIVATEERS as they can’t compete due to the costs, even at a local level, and that’s a globally trend.
The sport is dying. Local clubs and even the local shops are closing and this due to a lack of support. The local MX tracks are closing due to noise levels as well as a lack of riders at the venues.
The MX fan base is aging. The worst is that the aging fan base has not passed it onto the next generation. This same aging fan base is the one who pays for the bikes and the bills for the current riders. The few new riders that have been attracted to the sport are not lifers, but a flash in the pan, one off. or maybe two bike purchases because it’s cool. They don’t and won’t race anyway. Even they recognize the severe costs involved with bent or worn valves.
You surly do know that you are killing the sport by pushing expensive bikes with expensive rebuilds on the grass roots..
Not many, if any fathers would bother to take their sons and daughters to watch a MX event, why would they?…The kids will simply want what the fathers are no longer willing to put up with!
Do you have money to burn?
MX is no longer a sport of skill, but a sport for who has the biggest wallet. This was not as evident with 2 strokes. A wallet could only take you so far, but in the end skill always triumphed.
The decline in fans from the current aging generation (The ones who pay the bills) will result in the next generation being smaller and so on. The AMA is a bit like any product or company, which has to evolve and move with the times or succumb. Not being a dooms dayer, but eventually at some stage without modification to the rules, it will simply result in the demise of the sport.
It is already a very expensive sport. Why would you make it even more expensive? How many million dollar fathers do you think the AMA is appealing too?
As the governing body, the results of your rules and regulations are completely and totally out of touch with the sport you are meant to uphold.
When are you going to allow the 2 strokes motor back into the races, and return the sport to an affordable level, that people will and want to participate in? A sport that people will want to watch on television. A sport that so many in the past have appreciated, that they are now abandoning. They are the people you supposedly represent in some way or the other? “The regulatory body” which is no longer regulating but dictating what bikes the minions must purchase.
Is this what's it's come down to?
When is 1cc = 1cc (125 vs. 125 or 250 vs. 250). If a particular motor can’t cope in a sporting event, then why allow bending the rules and doubling the motor capacity of an inferior and more expensive motor. It’s a bit bizarre, and not to mention a strange tactic. A bit like saying let’s bend the rules a bit and allow Anabolic Steroids into the sport to accommodate the steroid manufacturer for a fee.
In the end you will have managed to eradicate the original successful and well supported format all together? This was all done to accommodate a more expensive, inferior, and unreliable motor! What, if anything was the logic? – A group of manufacturers from Japan?
I along with many do NOT believe that this was done in the name of the environment. There would be more merit and value in shutting down the V8’s in Daytona, Drag events or F1 over a handful of small bore motors supported by a handful of people. One in how many thousands of people in the general public actually race and actively participate or support these small bore events? The environmentalists have far bigger and better fish to fry than a few tiny motors run on “Any Sunday”. I DO NOT believe they had anything to do with the rule changes!
On a side note – Scientifically how would a 14,500 rpm 150cc motor, be better than a 11,000 rpm 85cc motor on the environment? A modern 4 strokes pollutes as much as a regular 2 stroke on 60:1 mix Yes, the new improved 4 stroke blows burnt smoke from NEW!
A) There are less MX fans buying tickets than ever before!
B) Less people buying bikes!
C) Less people have an interest in watching it on television!
There are fewer fathers who would bother to buy the overpriced bikes currently available. And these new, supposedly improved motors that require multiple $1000 rebuilds, several times per season! And here is another question – What happens if you have more than ONE son?
Is the 85 class going the same way as the 125 class, being slowly killed and eroded by bigger wallets? (Double the displacement to accommodate an inferior and very much more expensive motor from Japan)
Why would anybody bother with the 85 class if the next class he will have to ride in, is going to be an unreliable expensive 4 stroke 250? (Not multiple choice, and not an even playing field, if you happen to opt for half the cc’s that is reliable and financially smarter)
Would you tell a talented kid in the 85 class “That’s it son, done with the 85’s, now go play some ball, as I’m not willing to buy and support the new and improved unreliable 250cc device” I would say it’s better to simply not start MX at all! This way I won’t disappoint anybody. I will also change the channel when it’s on the television.
What’s going on with the 85cc class – About to be silently demolished and will soon be known as the 150cc class. Will it go to where the “open” class has gone?
What happened to the 125 class? – This is now the new and improved 250 class.
Where is the old 250 class? – This now a 450cc class.
Where is the open class (Unlimited?) – GONE.
Hey we have bent the rules a bit and allowed double the engine capacity to appease the Japanese manufacturers – Lets also allow the Steroids in as they may pay a fee as well to bend some of the rules, the riders themselves will have just a bit more capacity as well?
A) So, what have we gained out of all of the above rule and capacity changes? – Nothing but a very expensive and very exclusive sport.
B) Who stood to gain anything from these rule changes? – Well simply in the short term the bike manufacturers increased profits, and in the long term probably NOBODY AT ALL!
C) Where will we be in the next ten years time? – It has taken ten years to get where we are now, its anybody guess I suppose, but it does look a bit bleak from here.
The FIM have at least recognized a problem and have made some slight adjustment. Maybe the AMA will one day react as well, with a slightly more bold approach and simply call a 250cc a 250cc, as that is what it is. Why bend the rules for one and not the other?
Just a thought….was the AMA for sale and bought by the Japanese, just to push the 4 stroke, and increase their profit margins?
The rules that you have created flow all the way down the food chain globally across the planet. What a purchase that would have been for the manufacturers. I don’t think that even the Japanese could have anticipated the initial sales boom globally for the inferior, unreliable 4 stroke motor. The one that needed the rules to be BENT to accommodate its lack of performance. (Just in case you did not get it – Double the motor capacity – and that was rule #1 to uphold – Capacity being the PRIMARY rule broken for cheating throughout history!)
Did anybody see the long term fall out of a dying sport due to ridiculously expensive running costs?
What on earth was the logic of eradicating and destroying a great sport for all globally, and then not to have the courage to return it to its former successful formula? This is the same formula that put the AMA on the map in the first place. It was fathers with their formula who put you there to uphold it, NOT the manufacturers.
I honestly believe that there will be very little for the AMA to manage in the future of MX in the next decade. Even Honda has publically declared a cut back in rider sponsorship for 2010.
Here is a personal funny – I live in a large city (4.5 million) where one of the largest dealers has just folded. The funny bit is that it was a HONDA dealer – The irony of it all.
1cc = 1cc – No ifs and no buts and no bending the rules even for Japan or the Steroid manufacturers. (The AMA was meant to check the rules were adhered to, NOT REINVENT the rules in favor of a group of manufacturer’s profits.)
This is all we are asking....
I’m sure the local milk company would love to have your formula – “Sir, your 500cc’s of milk is actually the same as 1000cc – Now let me explain………………………” Could the milk corporate bodies actually collude with one another, and get the public to except the 500cc carton? You did, but will you succeeded in the long term?
I will NOT say that I’m a great fan of the AMA or its PR or its ability to recognize that the rule keeper has clearly bent the rules.
Here is a simple analogy for you – Would you buy a computer that could not maintain its performance for more than a month or so, where the performance degraded almost on a per use basis? It totally self destruct if not rebuilt several times per year for a heavy user, at a cost of almost 20% of its total purchase price per rebuild. To top it off, it has the resale value of a brick? – I would not purchase this computer ever!
Your amendment of the rules has in fact forced the above analogy on all the grassroots riders clear across the planet. You have forced the riders to purchase this device. Those that are ignorant and new to the sport and don’t know of the original options, simple walk in and straight back out of the sport. (They don’t tune in via the television either)
I will NOT be forced to purchase an inferior product and I will NOT support MX in its current form.
There is only one logical thought from all of this. You have abandoned the people you are meant to support. The same people who entrusted you with the responsibilities of upholding the sport. It appears as though you have colluded with Japan for a fee. It also appears as though you are trying to create an exclusive F1 style event with all its grandeur, where only the manufacturers participate. This is NOT what we wanted or entrusted to you.
The Japanese manufacturers are there for profit only. When their sales drop, which they are, are you then via their instructions going to amend the rules again. And then attempt to recover a lost generation of riders and supporters?
This is a sport meant to be a governed and managed for all via the AMA. Not just for the manufacturers. Riders put you there, NOT the manufacturers from Japan. The AMA is clearly not representing the people who put it there. The AMA appears to have a clear vision of MX that is in the likes and category of exclusive F1 events. This is totally disjointed from what your mission was. Those were to simply uphold the rules.
Is this the kind of competition you desire?
Rule #1 was displacement.
I don’t want an F1 style of exclusive event, and don’t think anybody else does either.
Maybe the decline of supporters and riders in the generations to come will diminish, to the point that the little television air time you currently have, will also shrink. I won’t tune in. and neither will my children.
To be clear – Riders want a simple format.
65cc
85cc
125cc
250cc
And opens
If any 250cc motor cannot cope in a 250cc event, then leave it to the developers to make it cope at their cost, not mine.
I DO NOT WANT TO BE FORCED TO BUY AN UNRELIABLE EXPENSIVE MOTOR THAT CLEARLY CANNOT COPE WITHOUT THE #1 RULE BEING ADJUSTED TO SUITE ITS LACK OF PERFORMANCE OR RELIABILITY!
It’s now almost 10 years later and we have an inferior, more expensive motor. The question is, have we gone forward to a new and improved place? Can we see a new and improved place we will be in, in the near future? The answer is a CLEAR NO!
Where are we going?
And this concludes what is I believe to be a real representation of many privateer riders and parents opinions. ITS TOO EXPENSIVE – Bring it back to the original format.
Stumped and disappointed grass root MX fan that will NOT be encouraging his son to race anything other than Enduro and Trials! – Fortunately you have not destroyed either of these. (Not in your portfolio thank god)
I will ensure my son remains focused on Enduro, and will not have an interest in MX in its current format. We will not tune our televisions in either!
Looking forward to the showing on television of the next trials and Enduro events.
JustEnduro
An MX fan that has enjoyed the sport all his life, from the age of about 8 and now approaching 50 and still riding. (Trails NOT MX.)
Featured Video
TSM Sponsors
Comments
By 125mx.com on June 28th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
Cant agree more ! What you have said is echoed by 1000’s of people but unfortunatley we dont get a say or even get heard by any governing bodies, mx will become as you say a private little ‘polo club’ as so many people are left without the very thing that made is as big as it was a decade ago ! We dont watch GP’s anymore as thats a euro ‘playboy’ sport with the 30 richest riders on the line instead of the 40 fastest, we also have stopped travelling to the US twice a year to watch a supercross and an outdoor National as the noise now is offensive, although we did enjoy cheering on a 125yz in the very last Vegas sx we travelled too. Unless there’s a shake-up with all govorning bodies to get the class structures fair, MX is a sitting duck and will retreat up its own backside. This recent trend of ‘buying’ speed has greatly restricted the actual amount of racers competing making these guys actually feel faster than they are. At least we here in the UK can go watch one of our National 2st Championships and with the 250f guys all bleating like girls about how un-fair a ‘250cc’ class will be on them, I always smile to myself on how ‘fair’ it was when they raced against a little 125 ? At our local practice tracks when you look around guys are on bikes like a 1995 YZ125 or 98 CR250’s or 2001 RM 250’s which are inexpensive and reliable, the oldest 4st is possibly an 05/6 ? Say’s exactly what we already know !!
ps: How long before we see 125cc 4st’s in the 65cc class in this crazy world.
2st’s are the future !
By JustEnduro on June 29th, 2009 at 12:15 am
How about I get a bit bizarre.
If everybody who read this post, left even a one liner response, then maybe we could post a link to this and all the opinions off to the AMA and the FIM. A petition of sorts. This done despite the fact that they are already moving in the right direction. I do believe that the more people shout and the louder they shout, the less they will be inclined to attempt to rewrite the rules in the future.
The effort to drop one line of text here is a lot less then compiling an email and then hunting for the address to lob it at.
In regards to the 65cc 4 stroke motor. I don’t think they can get there. The reason being, they can hardly make the stroke any shorter than it already is. “Over square motor” The current short stroke achieved 14500 rpm on the 150cc motor. These with mechanical valves, as electronic valves that are fitted in F1 are illegal where they achieve 20000rpm. The one rule of physics that hurts revs is the fact that to achieve the high rev you need to decrease the flywheel and weight and all other moving components, or just get rid of the flywheel all together. The combo of less flywheel and more rpm, results in lower torque. In short a modern day 450 does not have the same sort of torque as a traditional 1990 4 stroke RPM for RPM. It does have a whole lot more performance, but living on a legacy of torque.
Plan A – To match a 2 stroke performance is to simply double the capacity of the 4 stroke. Double the size of the explosions that’s on a two stroke evens the playing field. One step further, or the hard way is to double the rpm. Honda attempted a mix of both at the same time, with some success. Raise the rpm on a 4 stroke as well. CR500 = 5600 rpm / CRF450R = 11500rpm. Imagine a 65cc 4 stroke at 28000rpm? Sounds reliable and plausible? I’ll race out and buy a motor that out revs my woodworking router… LOL.
By westsiderippa on June 29th, 2009 at 5:46 am
here is my one line, change the rules, long lived 2 strokes. thanks for your post, you have said it all clear as mud.
By 2strokecountry on June 29th, 2009 at 8:53 am
Amazing letter and yes this is clearly a world wide problem, two few have spoken for the many and this will destroy our beloved sport for ever I disagree in that I will always watch , although with a sadened heart that I will never have. But to watch a professional on a motorcross bike( be it a 4 clanger or 2 stroke ) is always amazing. I am in australia, I work hard, but I CANNOT AND WILL NOT SHELL OUT HARD EARNED ON A BIKE THAT CONSTANTLY NEEDS TO BE REBUILT.My 2.5 year old son rides his pee wee across our back yard, he knows how to go but not how to stop, lol. The enjoyment I see on his face when his arse is planted on that seat is priceless.It sadens me to think in a few years possibly the 85 class wonr exist and I will have to tell him that riding for fun is all we have and that racing will be out of our league.2 strokes brought families, communities togeather to race and socialize, it didnt matter how large your wallet was it was about racing. Its a shame now that the wallet and profits are bigger than our sport and that its the family and weekend racers that will be the biggest losers to the greed that has taken over and killed the fun factor.
By SwapperMX on June 29th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Hey Guys,
Thanks for the site, and thanks for this post voicing the opinions of many. I have been pushing for a little while now to at least allow 250 two strokes to race in the current “lites” class here in Australia. Hopefully making some headway, and had some positive responses from the decision makers – Motorcycling Australia. The introduction of the 250 two stroke into the lites class could lead to a really strong resurgence in the sport. I have said for a long time that this is how the rules should be 250 cc = 250 cc. No arguments. Now if this rule change was to happen it would also allow for the re-intoduction of the 125 class. Which then also allows for the re-introduction of an open class (Current crop of 450s). This really opens up the classes again, allowing everyone to choose what they want to ride 2stroke or 4 without any confusion. This would be great boost for the sport, having more people out there riding, competing and following both supercross and motocross. We do have such a great sport, it just needs to be managed properly. When the two stroke gets a chance to compete on a level playing field, I see a massive resurgence within the sport. And when Honda, Kawi and Suzi Japan see what they are missing out on sales wise when Yamaha and KTM are selling more two strokes than they can manufacture, R&D will be pumped back into the two stroke and the world will be a happier place. I am going to post a link to this post on Australia’s most popular motocross forum to try and create more two stroke interest here in Aus. Long live the two stroke.
By speedracer01 on June 29th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
I agree 100%! I love my 2 stroke and really can’t stand a 4 poke. They just don’t do it for me. I’ve tried riding several and they’re really not that fun to me. I don’t have any problem out running so called superior 450s with my KTM 250sx. Although, I think they should bump the 450s to 500s, and have a 250 and 500 class. I’d love to see 500 2ts running again. We’d then see what is really superior and where the real power is when it comes to motors. Wish the AMA would realize what’s happening.
By JohnNicholas on June 29th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
What I don’t understand is how a rule that afforded the four-stroke a displacement advantage was even passed in the first place!! As JustEnduro’s article points out, cheating by means of increasing displacement was frowned upon for years.
All of a sudden (okay in 1997) it’s fine to use an overbore to compete. I just don’t get it.
I know that folks have talked about four-strokes being really reliable and that some have had no troubles with them. This may be true at a club type level, but when you move onto a series like Loretta Lynn’s everything changes.
It becomes big business. Tales of bikes costing more than $35,000. is not unusual. And the guys that have them normally have more than one.
This is not what a grass roots racer could afford on a normal salary.
When the bikes are in this state of tune they do blow up on a regular basis. Or they are rebuilt on a very aggressive schedule.
In comparison is it even possible to invest $35,000. in a two stroke?
I think not!
Anyone that thinks that racers attempting to compete in Pro-Racing can afford this investment is greatly mistaken. Just look at the empty gates at the start of the Outdoors Nationals.
Back in the two stroke days there were qualifiers and full gates. Just think for a moment what that means…
How many people have just walked away from the sport because the cost to compete has gotten out-of-hand?
Locally more racers are moving to two-strokes. And many more are talking about making the change.
A revolution of sorts is in the works. The only way to be heard is to speak up and voice your opinion.
What do you say?
By Targo on June 30th, 2009 at 1:54 am
Nice rant but I agree 100% and I will never own a 4T.
By mickey on June 30th, 2009 at 4:24 am
I also agree 100%. I recently bought an 09 YZ250 2T and it is a fantastic bike. I could of bought a 450, but I thought of the cost, maintenance and upkeep compared to the 2T. It just made more sense to me to spring for the 2T. It is a shame that to be serious and competitive about your moto one has to be hit in the wallet and spend more time in the garage. Im not knockin the thumper, its just sad to see the sport you love, in my opinion, mismanaged. I had gotten back into riding after six years away. I will not moto any more for just the very reasons that have been given in the letter and comments above. I remember when I could ride my bike 2-3 yrs and trade it in for a new one because there was still a market for used bikes. I dont see the sport being able to grow. When will it get to be too much?
By SCOOTER042 on June 30th, 2009 at 5:42 am
This is the sad truth. Politics is a bitch. This time the big 4 have pushed too hard and everyone is starting to see the shenanigans. I will never buy a $ stroke. It’s too much fun to pass a 450 on the inside!
Did the AMA really think that riders were really this stupid? I guess they did.
BRAAAAAAP!
By irace2tmotos on July 3rd, 2009 at 4:17 am
Send your broken bike bills to the AMA and the manufacturers! Buy an auto which uses a 4 junk engine and they give you a warryentee. I guess they don’t believe the engine will hold together either pr else they would garentee them for a least a year or two. No they want or expect you to buy a new bike every year and toss the old ones away. That’s the problem two strokes were too good!
By SPYDERWOLF on July 15th, 2009 at 2:22 am
LONG LIVE 2 STROKES
By yellowheels on December 30th, 2009 at 9:23 am
Finally, someone who can verbalize what millions of parents are feeling… We just left the 85 class where he was extremely competitive and must now make tough decisions on his riding future. Luckily, we have an old 04 125 that I fixed up and may try to find a SX150. Other than that, guess it’s goodbye MX….
Thanks again for the great article.
By Chris2T on December 30th, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Rather than blame the AMA, i blame the manufacturers. The AMA is just along for the ride, i honestly don’t believe they have much say in the matter anymore. In other words they are powerless. Look at it from the AMA’s perspective: the japanese clearly dominate motocross and the japanese have decided to throw all their money into 4 stroke development. The japanese want their “latest and greatest” represented, and they want them winning races. There’s big money involved, and the japanese have the AMA squarely in their pockets. Do you really think the AMA is all of the sudden going to say “yes, we’ll allow inexpensive and possibly outdated 250 2T’s to compete and trounce the latest japanese 250 4T offerings, manufacturers be damned”?? It’s a simple (albeit painful and sad) lesson in economics. Until all the japanese mfg’s – Honda especially – agree that it’s in their best interest to promote a 2 stroke, you won’t see rules changed. There’s simply too much money tied up in 4 strokes. Sucks but it’s true. Riders have to start voting with their wallets and buying 2 strokes. Talking sense and logic and reasoning will not do a damn thing. Everyone buying 2 stroke’s is the single solitary way it’s ever going to change. From what i hear on forums like dirtrider.net it sounds like a revolution may be taking hold but the reality may be different
Chris
Trackbacks