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	<title>Comments on: 2009 Service Honda 250AF &#8211; AJ Interview</title>
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	<link>http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/01/2009-service-honda-250af-aj-interview/</link>
	<description>The source for two stroke News, Tech and Tips.</description>
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		<title>By: DANIEL HONEYCUTT</title>
		<link>http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/01/2009-service-honda-250af-aj-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-7242</link>
		<dc:creator>DANIEL HONEYCUTT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 03:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://twostrokemotocross.com/?p=759#comment-7242</guid>
		<description>YOUR DEFINATELY A INSPIRATION TO ALL OF US DIE HARD 2-STROKERS,I PERSONALLY APPRECIATE WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND LOOK FOWARD TO DOING BUSINESS WITH YOU IN THE FUTURE. I CURRENTLY OWN A 2000 CR250R,WITH MOTOR MODS COULD THIS MOTOR ALSO BE THE HEART FOR ONE OF YOU AF&#039;S,IT&#039;S THE SAME MOTOR RIGHT.WOULD YOU BUILD ONE FOR SOMEONE IF THEY HAVE THE 09 ROLLING CHASSIS AND MOTOR ALREADY?WOULD THE PRICE BE THE SAME......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>YOUR DEFINATELY A INSPIRATION TO ALL OF US DIE HARD 2-STROKERS,I PERSONALLY APPRECIATE WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND LOOK FOWARD TO DOING BUSINESS WITH YOU IN THE FUTURE. I CURRENTLY OWN A 2000 CR250R,WITH MOTOR MODS COULD THIS MOTOR ALSO BE THE HEART FOR ONE OF YOU AF&#8217;S,IT&#8217;S THE SAME MOTOR RIGHT.WOULD YOU BUILD ONE FOR SOMEONE IF THEY HAVE THE 09 ROLLING CHASSIS AND MOTOR ALREADY?WOULD THE PRICE BE THE SAME&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: The General</title>
		<link>http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/01/2009-service-honda-250af-aj-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-184</link>
		<dc:creator>The General</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Feb 2009 12:01:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://twostrokemotocross.com/?p=759#comment-184</guid>
		<description>Hi JBMX737

I&#039;m not sure what you&#039;re talking about. AJ has always given credit to Mickey and Bruce Zimmerman even after over 10 years. AJ and Service Honda have taken the idea and taken it much further than anyone could have imagined back in 1997.

Here is the AF history post AJ made on the CR500riders web site in June of 2008.

&quot;On AFC conversion bike history.
 
There seem to be a hundred versions, some close ,some way out there! lol!
 
First guy to own one that i know of.. and that was publicized in magazines and made the bike something people knew about.. Bruce Zimerman. (RIP)

He did not build or fabricate  the bike.. but supplied Mickey Kessler with his used 97 CR250 and a used CR500 engine. At the same time frame , Scott Miller (Service Honda employee ) and I, where speaking and collaborating with Bruce /Mickey on  building Scott and myself one also..(hey it fits pretty easy.. lets do it!)

We were all Vet A class MX riders and at that time, simply concentrating on building good VET mx class machine. Bruce was very stoked to be getting the bike going, and so was Mickey, Scott and myself. No one had built or ridden one that we knew of Bruces was done first for sure.

It was all in a fairly short time frame and after we all rode those first three bikes and were stoked at the performance and reliability. I contracted Mickey to do frames and mods for Service Hondas first run of all &quot; new&quot;production CR500AFs&#039;

Scott Millers (Service Honda) was also a used 97 CR250 with a used 500 engine.
Since I had the idea  to build these as a *new * model .. mine was the first that was a brand new CR250, a pipe made by PC for the bike, and a brand new CR500 (I traded a brand new CR250 engine back to Honda engine department for a brand new CR500 engine as back then they still had assembled engines on the shelf)
 
In the meantime had contracted PC to design and build a pipes for the 500AF bikes. As we wanted to have a good supply for customers. They were not interested initially. Even in an order of 100 pipes and silencers, simply too small of volume, understanable considering the volume orders they do.

We negotiated to pay for the new stamps and development.. as well as a commitment to X amount of future minimum orders (100 per order) and PC agreed. I was stoked to get them to consider it. In addition they did not want to &quot;stock&quot; what to them was a very small quantity pipe..so simply made whatever quantity  we  ordered.

Anyway - In all the early tests all props where to Mickey Kessler, as they should be , as he did the actual frame and fabs, but the bikes were assembled at Service Honda by myself or Scott Miller.

Within months the orders for new CR500AF bikes, started coming in faster 
than anyone ever expected , and Mickey got behind as he had a great full performance and suspension business going..(like he had for years and years)
he made about 10 frames ? and relayed that while he enjoyed it, this was side work, and he simply dint have time for so many , and SH started doing the fabs in house (me and I was then temporarily in Socal at the time) as well as still getting what we could thru Mickey.

While early stages no one knew where this was going, we just had fun building and riding the bikes. Mickey did a few conversions and the vast majority of the ones he built then where specifically contracted for Service Honda.

Quite a few magazines tests early on, really started to build the conversions bikes awareness..it just went of from there..!

Later on (i think 01 or 02?) FMF agreed to also build pipes and silencers for the model, if SH would agree to the initial stamping fees and development fees.plus the minimum order standards for pipes and silencer combos.

A year or two later FHK in UK started doing a few for Rob Herring in the GP&#039;s in late 98? 99? but really did not sell them. Those same years Service Honda had a couple guys from the UK running the CR500AF&#039;s  UKs local series.

Most everywhere the bikes where called hybrids or simply conversions..
the AF &quot;tag name&quot; of the Service Honda hybrids.. came to pass from Honda just not being happy about *CR*500..(yes a trademark)  and i needed to change it..

AF stood for aluminum frame ,and was not too inspired. Despite what many US based guy seem to think, it was not at all common place to call these bikes &quot;AF&#039;s&quot;. It did not simply make *common sense* to the general riding public,
(though it seems like it would have,  in 20/20 hindsight)and i was asked thousands of times what &quot;AF&quot; actually stood for ,even by the media.. once explained, folks would go &quot;oh yeah I get it&quot; lol

Many thought it was my initials or my wife&#039;s, or sons, this went on for years and years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The name didn&#039;t seem to *stick*, until about 01 or 02..maybe later..by then I was well into the new frame Gen 2 or gen 3 frame generations, and doing about 200 units per year.Its also when Honda stopped supplying assembled cr500 engines and SH had to start building them in house from new Honda parts.

All along SH had been using the CR250 chassis, and continued to thru 04..
with the exception that in late 03 i offered a limited edition run of  CR500AFs based on the CR125 chassis and in 05 started with the CRF250R and CRF250X chassis. 

Early on, Net forums like this (CR500riders) were not known of really (at least on this topic), and guys like Mickey, myself or Scott, simply spoke on the phone or in person when at the track , trail,or work together.. 
 
In the US, or in euroland, it was extremely rare to even see a hybrid.. and if you did , you likely knew the guy. As all of us had probably BS&#039;ed on the phone about the bikes in general,or rode/raced  together at some point in time.. 

No big deal at all it&#039;s just a dirt bike. But it was a fun time for all of us ,
(and regardless of whether  we knew each other or not it kind of became a &quot;band of brothers&quot;)  something very interesting to do , and continues to be a decade later! 

Sorry if the longish tale  bored anyone to tears.. &quot;

(Then in a later post&gt;&gt;)

..that sort of  outlines the beginning in the gen1&#039;s - from there, I wanted to keep up with each new chassis design change Honda made. Since the point of the whole AF concept was to get the great CR500 engine, in a new, and  latest design  chassis.

Obviously as a dealer doing fairly decent volume, SH received new model year bikes about as fast as any dealership realistically  could..  So when I got my hands on the first 2000 (first gen2)  in late June or early July of 99 ,

I had it completed quickly and lined up on it at LL&#039;s by the first week of August(99)!! Pretty much the same scenario with the following years and each new frame generation or model year.

So certainly made the first AF conversions of each frame generation-  gen 2 , gen 3 , then gen 4.. of course this had as much by my particular situation,
and opportunity to do so, than anyone else would just happen to have.

So I don&#039;t view that as some accomplishment, or bragging rights.. it was what I viewed as a necessity and a natural progression of where I was at with the project..  

And it is the history of the AF&#039;s thru the frame generations. The first Honda gen 4 was the 04 CRF250R.. and a built one immediately when they came into the dealership... but in this case I did decide to remain with the 04 CR250 chassis thru the 04 model year of CR500AFs&#039; as i wanted time on the new gen 4 riding ,racing, testing etc..before releasing it. So the first &quot;released&quot; gen 4 &#039;s  500AF&#039;s were in 05,and 05 model CRF250R  based. Although i had been racing and riding one for a year. (the 04CRF based 500AF)

The posted pictures kind of go thru the various years and changes....
 
 
AJ&quot;

I hope this clears things up! To see the photos mentioned please go to the CR500riders.com site and do a search on AF history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi JBMX737</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what you&#8217;re talking about. AJ has always given credit to Mickey and Bruce Zimmerman even after over 10 years. AJ and Service Honda have taken the idea and taken it much further than anyone could have imagined back in 1997.</p>
<p>Here is the AF history post AJ made on the CR500riders web site in June of 2008.</p>
<p>&#8220;On AFC conversion bike history.<br />
 <br />
There seem to be a hundred versions, some close ,some way out there! lol!<br />
 <br />
First guy to own one that i know of.. and that was publicized in magazines and made the bike something people knew about.. Bruce Zimerman. (RIP)</p>
<p>He did not build or fabricate  the bike.. but supplied Mickey Kessler with his used 97 CR250 and a used CR500 engine. At the same time frame , Scott Miller (Service Honda employee ) and I, where speaking and collaborating with Bruce /Mickey on  building Scott and myself one also..(hey it fits pretty easy.. lets do it!)</p>
<p>We were all Vet A class MX riders and at that time, simply concentrating on building good VET mx class machine. Bruce was very stoked to be getting the bike going, and so was Mickey, Scott and myself. No one had built or ridden one that we knew of Bruces was done first for sure.</p>
<p>It was all in a fairly short time frame and after we all rode those first three bikes and were stoked at the performance and reliability. I contracted Mickey to do frames and mods for Service Hondas first run of all &#8221; new&#8221;production CR500AFs&#8217;</p>
<p>Scott Millers (Service Honda) was also a used 97 CR250 with a used 500 engine.<br />
Since I had the idea  to build these as a *new * model .. mine was the first that was a brand new CR250, a pipe made by PC for the bike, and a brand new CR500 (I traded a brand new CR250 engine back to Honda engine department for a brand new CR500 engine as back then they still had assembled engines on the shelf)</p>
<p>In the meantime had contracted PC to design and build a pipes for the 500AF bikes. As we wanted to have a good supply for customers. They were not interested initially. Even in an order of 100 pipes and silencers, simply too small of volume, understanable considering the volume orders they do.</p>
<p>We negotiated to pay for the new stamps and development.. as well as a commitment to X amount of future minimum orders (100 per order) and PC agreed. I was stoked to get them to consider it. In addition they did not want to &#8220;stock&#8221; what to them was a very small quantity pipe..so simply made whatever quantity  we  ordered.</p>
<p>Anyway &#8211; In all the early tests all props where to Mickey Kessler, as they should be , as he did the actual frame and fabs, but the bikes were assembled at Service Honda by myself or Scott Miller.</p>
<p>Within months the orders for new CR500AF bikes, started coming in faster<br />
than anyone ever expected , and Mickey got behind as he had a great full performance and suspension business going..(like he had for years and years)<br />
he made about 10 frames ? and relayed that while he enjoyed it, this was side work, and he simply dint have time for so many , and SH started doing the fabs in house (me and I was then temporarily in Socal at the time) as well as still getting what we could thru Mickey.</p>
<p>While early stages no one knew where this was going, we just had fun building and riding the bikes. Mickey did a few conversions and the vast majority of the ones he built then where specifically contracted for Service Honda.</p>
<p>Quite a few magazines tests early on, really started to build the conversions bikes awareness..it just went of from there..!</p>
<p>Later on (i think 01 or 02?) FMF agreed to also build pipes and silencers for the model, if SH would agree to the initial stamping fees and development fees.plus the minimum order standards for pipes and silencer combos.</p>
<p>A year or two later FHK in UK started doing a few for Rob Herring in the GP&#8217;s in late 98? 99? but really did not sell them. Those same years Service Honda had a couple guys from the UK running the CR500AF&#8217;s  UKs local series.</p>
<p>Most everywhere the bikes where called hybrids or simply conversions..<br />
the AF &#8220;tag name&#8221; of the Service Honda hybrids.. came to pass from Honda just not being happy about *CR*500..(yes a trademark)  and i needed to change it..</p>
<p>AF stood for aluminum frame ,and was not too inspired. Despite what many US based guy seem to think, it was not at all common place to call these bikes &#8220;AF&#8217;s&#8221;. It did not simply make *common sense* to the general riding public,<br />
(though it seems like it would have,  in 20/20 hindsight)and i was asked thousands of times what &#8220;AF&#8221; actually stood for ,even by the media.. once explained, folks would go &#8220;oh yeah I get it&#8221; lol</p>
<p>Many thought it was my initials or my wife&#8217;s, or sons, this went on for years and years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>The name didn&#8217;t seem to *stick*, until about 01 or 02..maybe later..by then I was well into the new frame Gen 2 or gen 3 frame generations, and doing about 200 units per year.Its also when Honda stopped supplying assembled cr500 engines and SH had to start building them in house from new Honda parts.</p>
<p>All along SH had been using the CR250 chassis, and continued to thru 04..<br />
with the exception that in late 03 i offered a limited edition run of  CR500AFs based on the CR125 chassis and in 05 started with the CRF250R and CRF250X chassis. </p>
<p>Early on, Net forums like this (CR500riders) were not known of really (at least on this topic), and guys like Mickey, myself or Scott, simply spoke on the phone or in person when at the track , trail,or work together..<br />
 <br />
In the US, or in euroland, it was extremely rare to even see a hybrid.. and if you did , you likely knew the guy. As all of us had probably BS&#8217;ed on the phone about the bikes in general,or rode/raced  together at some point in time.. </p>
<p>No big deal at all it&#8217;s just a dirt bike. But it was a fun time for all of us ,<br />
(and regardless of whether  we knew each other or not it kind of became a &#8220;band of brothers&#8221;)  something very interesting to do , and continues to be a decade later! </p>
<p>Sorry if the longish tale  bored anyone to tears.. &#8221;</p>
<p>(Then in a later post&gt;&gt;)</p>
<p>..that sort of  outlines the beginning in the gen1&#8242;s &#8211; from there, I wanted to keep up with each new chassis design change Honda made. Since the point of the whole AF concept was to get the great CR500 engine, in a new, and  latest design  chassis.</p>
<p>Obviously as a dealer doing fairly decent volume, SH received new model year bikes about as fast as any dealership realistically  could..  So when I got my hands on the first 2000 (first gen2)  in late June or early July of 99 ,</p>
<p>I had it completed quickly and lined up on it at LL&#8217;s by the first week of August(99)!! Pretty much the same scenario with the following years and each new frame generation or model year.</p>
<p>So certainly made the first AF conversions of each frame generation-  gen 2 , gen 3 , then gen 4.. of course this had as much by my particular situation,<br />
and opportunity to do so, than anyone else would just happen to have.</p>
<p>So I don&#8217;t view that as some accomplishment, or bragging rights.. it was what I viewed as a necessity and a natural progression of where I was at with the project..  </p>
<p>And it is the history of the AF&#8217;s thru the frame generations. The first Honda gen 4 was the 04 CRF250R.. and a built one immediately when they came into the dealership&#8230; but in this case I did decide to remain with the 04 CR250 chassis thru the 04 model year of CR500AFs&#8217; as i wanted time on the new gen 4 riding ,racing, testing etc..before releasing it. So the first &#8220;released&#8221; gen 4 &#8216;s  500AF&#8217;s were in 05,and 05 model CRF250R  based. Although i had been racing and riding one for a year. (the 04CRF based 500AF)</p>
<p>The posted pictures kind of go thru the various years and changes&#8230;.<br />
 <br />
 <br />
AJ&#8221;</p>
<p>I hope this clears things up! To see the photos mentioned please go to the CR500riders.com site and do a search on AF history.</p>
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		<title>By: JBMX737</title>
		<link>http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/01/2009-service-honda-250af-aj-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-180</link>
		<dc:creator>JBMX737</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 04:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://twostrokemotocross.com/?p=759#comment-180</guid>
		<description>Mikey Kessler showed these guys how to do this It would be nice if they gave him the credit every once in a while.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mikey Kessler showed these guys how to do this It would be nice if they gave him the credit every once in a while.</p>
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		<title>By: Service Honda -Gift from God?? - E2S</title>
		<link>http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/01/2009-service-honda-250af-aj-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>Service Honda -Gift from God?? - E2S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 17:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://twostrokemotocross.com/?p=759#comment-168</guid>
		<description>[...] Honda -Gift from God??   check this out brand new yz300, kx250, cr250, cr500, kx500  2009 Service Honda 250AF - AJ Interview :: twostrokemotocross.com  __________________ 1989 CR250r  FMF Gnarly Pipe FMF Powercore Silencer Boyesen Rad Valve Twin Air [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Honda -Gift from God??   check this out brand new yz300, kx250, cr250, cr500, kx500  2009 Service Honda 250AF &#8211; AJ Interview :: twostrokemotocross.com  __________________ 1989 CR250r  FMF Gnarly Pipe FMF Powercore Silencer Boyesen Rad Valve Twin Air [...]</p>
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		<title>By: eprovenzano</title>
		<link>http://twostrokemotocross.com/2009/01/2009-service-honda-250af-aj-interview/comment-page-1/#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>eprovenzano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:16:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://twostrokemotocross.com/?p=759#comment-151</guid>
		<description>AJ and his equipmet are a class act...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AJ and his equipmet are a class act&#8230;</p>
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